Triumph Hurdle 2021

[Faugheen_Machine]

He’s been the best addition to the forum I can remember.

Feel like we’ve got someone manning a specialist subject so the rest of us needn’t worry too much in these early months about entires and the like because, anything important, Kotkijet would’ve inevitably spoken about that horse somewhere.

Now we need someone who will be dedicated to the cross country, someone else for the Hunters scene and one more to sort out the bumper horse wheat from the chaff.

I had little time for Juvenile Hurdles until Kotkijet arrived. Now it's the one thread I read without fail.

[kinloch brae]

I used to take a lot of note of what he writes, but I don't anymore, some races are pedestrian and some are quicker on the same day, time sometimes can be a useless guide,and sometimes a vital guide.

On Sunday its a useless guide to predict one set of horses over the other IMHO.

Zanahiyr's Racing Post Topspeed Rating is 112, nothing staggering, the other races have very poor/slow Topspeeds.

As an example Quilixios bolted in, hard held, on his Irish debut with a Topspeed of 108 in a 7-grand race, not a Grade 3.

A Topspeed of 112 was good enough for 7th or 8th in March's Triumph Hurdle, FFS.

I have never taken that much notice, perhaps it's that photo which looks as if he has just discovered America, Maybe that's the idea?

I am sure that many think the time boffin stuff gives them an edge. If it was true, is it true any longer? These days, uncle tom cobley will be falling over themselves quoting it. Yesterday, the price of this one was cut across the board. Was it the disciples or bookmakers just trimming it off the back of the article?

That's a couple of 6/1 shots he is now all over. They don't look especially good value to me.

Zanahiyr has effectively beaten two horses. I think that is far more important than the clock.

If the clock is so important why have so many average horses set track records?

[JackieMoon33]

Haut En Couleurs - Willie Mullins - Triumph Hurdle
This wonderfully bred juvenile won at Auteuil at the beginning of the month and it appears he’s on his way to Willie Mullins. He pulled a long way clear with the second horse showing a great attitude to hold off the challenge on the run in. I’m a huge fan of Saint Des Saints as a sire and this lad’s dam was a Grade 2 winner over fences as a 3yo. As he’s already won, he won’t be the type that Willie holds back for a year to run in novice hurdles so there is every chance he’ll run this season as he’ll have plenty of time to acclimatise.

Just read that Joe Donnelly owns this lad so he has two juveniles for this season. He also has Bring On The Night as well but as Haut En Couleurs has already won over hurdles, it might be him who takes the Triumph route and Bring On The Night held back for novice hurdling next season.

[Saxon Warrior]

Surely when he puts up horse X in a race over others, he'll have sectionals for the whole field and thats what makes him choose X? Am i missing your point (probably it's late )

Jack,

You haven't missed the point.
He compares times for same distance races on the same day to highlight the best time performance among those races.

What he didnt do is then say if this timefigure is any good when looking for a Triumph Hurdle winner.
Which it isn't.

I suppose he would look a chump if ending his article in that way though

[Geegees]

Just managed to watch back zanahiyr and im not on any fancy prices which is unfortunate as I was very impressed with how slick his hurdling was... I see some mentions of possible supreme considerations... was this confirmed/ suggested by GE or owner?

[Faugheen_Machine]

Just managed to watch back zanahiyr and im not on any fancy prices which is unfortunate as I was very impressed with how slick his hurdling was... I see some mentions of possible supreme considerations... was this confirmed/ suggested by GE or owner?

I haven't seen this mentioned but I'd be amazed if GE went down this route. Not sure he's ever ran a juvenile in the supreme before.

[Istabraq]

I haven't seen this mentioned but I'd be amazed if GE went down this route. Not sure he's ever ran a juvenile in the supreme before.

Not many do FM, I think there's still an 8lb claim for 4yo in the race but despite this very view are attracted...

[Faugheen_Machine]

Not many do FM, I think there's still an 8lb claim for 4yo in the race but despite this very view are attracted...

Binocular and Fakir D' oudaries is the only one I can think that has attempted in recent years and they have one thing in common.

Even with the age allowance, Binocular couldn't get his head in front.

[Leman14]

The only comment that I heard in relation to Zanahiyr was that "he's more than just a Juvenile".

As discussed previously on here, this can be taken in MANY different ways.....

However, IF he felt that he has the Triumph "in the bag" with Quilxios...... would he consider it????

[Faugheen_Machine]

The only comment that I heard in relation to Zanahiyr was that "he's more than just a Juvenile".

As discussed previously on here, this can be taken in MANY different ways.....

However, IF he felt that he has the Triumph "in the bag" with Quilxios...... would he consider it????

It'd be a strange decision and different owners so I doubt it.

My reading of that comment was that he's going to be a force for years to come.

[Leman14]

It'd be a strange decision and different owners so I doubt it.

My reading of that comment was that he's going to be a force for years to come.

That's how I read it too, but just throwing it out there
Good point about the different owners

[Redbridge]

Binocular and Fakir D' oudaries is the only one I can think that has attempted in recent years and they have one thing in common.

Even with the age allowance, Binocular couldn't get his head in front.

Both Binocular and Fakir were owned by JP and on both occasions he had two hot pots for the Triumph that were considered shoe-ins and funny enough both were beaten Franochoek 2008 and Sir Erec 2019.and so he missed out on both Triumphs which many believe Binocular would have been a certainty and to my mind Fakir would have gone very close.

[Faugheen_Machine]

Both Binocular and Fakir were owned by JP and on both occasions he had two hot pots for the Triumph that were considered shoe-ins and funny enough both were beaten Franochoek 2008 and Sir Erec 2019.

Yep and Binocular couldn't win the Supreme, yet he would start a short price for the CH the following year. I think that shows just how hard it is for a 4 year old to win a novice hurdle.

[Istabraq]

Both Binocular and Fakir were owned by JP and on both occasions he had two hot pots for the Triumph that were considered shoe-ins and funny enough both were beaten Franochoek 2008 and Sir Erec 2019.

Factually this is correct but the use of Sir Erec is misleading as we all know he was fatally injured during the race.
The discussion has been informative though as it suggests if JP has more than one for the Triumph he may well throw one in the Supreme and I hadn't considered that until seeing this debate...

[Redbridge]

Factually this is correct but the use of Sir Erec is misleading as we all know he was fatally injured during the race.
The discussion has been informative though as it suggests if JP has more than one for the Triumph he may well throw one in the Supreme and I hadn't considered that until seeing this debate...

Binocular, luckily for me was diverted as I had been hammering Celestial Halo week after week for the Triumph, but Binocular would have won that years running if taking part but the Alan King trained Franchoek was purchased by JP in the run-up, luckily for me even wealthy men sometimes make poor judgments.