2022 Ballymore Novices Hurdle

[thorne365]

A lot of mentions for Classic Getaway on the last couple of pages but he's another that could easily be a AB horse isn't he? Even his bumper win was over 2m 4f. And it seems his hurdle debut will be as well. I'd definitely like some form over shorter before stepping up for this.

Will rewatch the Lawlors later but Ginto seems stronger in the AB market than this one. Anything said on Grand Jury after the race by HDB? Fair run you'd think under the circumstances...

you're right about the market, and its crazy! Ye have to remember that AP racing is pretty much opinion [average joes] v opinion [unenlightened traders] so i honestly think this is a rare opportunity to get stuck in

[ComplyOrDie]

Getaway has a horrible record at HQ doesn’t he?

Yeah, he does. However, I wouldn't mind seeing some of his better novice hurdle progeny try 3m at the festival. Many try, what I believe to be, too short a trip, for whatever reason.

I know Talkischeap ran in the Bartlett, so that can obviously be marked down but Willie would be a different proposition for me, and is someone who I would be happy to take a chance on should a horse like Classic Getaway turn up to the race for him.

[Kevloaf]

A classy horse can win at the top level over most trips
that’s my definition anyway.

kauto was classy
don cossack wasn’t

both brill horses but one was classier

not sure on a and b and busy at moment
but he’s not quick enough to win a ballymore on good to soft IMO.

soft or worse and he’s a good chance for sure

If Kauto to Don Cossack is the level of class required, it's a very small pool to pick from, and at the intermediate trip we'd have to do the lean towards there not being one this year, at this stage?

This is going to be a general, sweeping statement, but by now, don't we know when we've got a classy one? The DRF only ever confirms it? The hype would already be there - for those top class ones?

We've had:
City Island, Willoughby Court, Windsor Park, The New One, First Lieutenant, Peddlers Cross win in the last 12 years - I'd say that's 50% that weren't classy, and that's ignoring the cliffs that Yorkhill and Samcro fell off (rightly so).

Faugheen, Bob Olinger, Envoi Allen, Yorkhill, Simonsig and Samcro - classy enough.... perhaps I'm being unfair on The New One, but he was a Grade 2 horse...


I suppose so far, he's the only horse I think I've seen this season at this trip to put in a performance I think could win it.... I am not saying he's better than any of these horses above, but absolutely nothing so far at this intermediate trip has, Journey With Me the closest perhaps?

A lot of thinking out loud there.

[Rooster Booster]

by my calcs GE has had 9 runners in the AB since 2016 and only 1 hasnt run more than 2m4f beforehand - death duty. That was in 2017 and [imo] seems to have made his mind up around suitability of runners. Happy to change my 90% to 95%

Yes but perhaps bear in mind none of the other 8 have won so it might not be something he is totally wedded to.

[thorne365]

Yes but perhaps bear in mind none of the other 8 have won so it might not be something he is totally wedded to.

won the lawlors? that proves the point doesnt it?

If you mean the AB - then yes, he might be looking for a new formula but why put AB ahead of bally which he has won?

[ComplyOrDie]

Yes but perhaps bear in mind none of the other 8 have won so it might not be something he is totally wedded to.

By that premise he's also never won the Bartlett so not sure why we are all so bothered finding his Bartlett horse anyway

[thorne365]

If Kauto to Don Cossack is the level of class required, it's a very small pool to pick from, and at the intermediate trip we'd have to do the lean towards there not being one this year, at this stage?

This is going to be a general, sweeping statement, but by now, don't we know when we've got a classy one? The DRF only ever confirms it? The hype would already be there - for those top class ones?

We've had:
City Island, Willoughby Court, Windsor Park, The New One, First Lieutenant, Peddlers Cross win in the last 12 years - I'd say that's 50% that weren't classy, and that's ignoring the cliffs that Yorkhill and Samcro fell off (rightly so).

Faugheen, Bob Olinger, Envoi Allen, Yorkhill, Simonsig and Samcro - classy enough.... perhaps I'm being unfair on The New One, but he was a Grade 2 horse...


I suppose so far, he's the only horse I think I've seen this season at this trip to put in a performance I think could win it.... I am not saying he's better than any of these horses above, but absolutely nothing so far at this intermediate trip has, Journey With Me the closest perhaps?

A lot of thinking out loud there.

this exactly - as we stand there has been nothing, bar a few maiden wins, to put themselves forward for this race except Ginto - astounded by the price

[Rooster Booster]

By that premise he's also never won the Bartlett so not sure why we are all so bothered finding his Bartlett horse anyway

Sorry I should have been clearer Yes I meant the AB ...I was maybe suggesting he might not be wedded to the type of horse he sends to the AB as he has never won it

[DenmanSacre]

This is going to be a general, sweeping statement, but by now, don't we know when we've got a classy one? The DRF only ever confirms it? The hype would already be there - for those top class ones?

We've had:
City Island, Willoughby Court, Windsor Park, The New One, First Lieutenant, Peddlers Cross win in the last 12 years - I'd say that's 50% that weren't classy, and that's ignoring the cliffs that Yorkhill and Samcro fell off (rightly so).

Faugheen, Bob Olinger, Envoi Allen, Yorkhill, Simonsig and Samcro - classy enough.... perhaps I'm being unfair on The New One, but he was a Grade 2 horse...

I wouldn't put Peddlers Cross in the top list - he was very classy and good enough to finish 2nd to Hurrican Fly in the Champion Hurdle the year after. Just didn't take to fences the year after.

[Kevloaf]

I wouldn't put Peddlers Cross in the top list - he was very classy and good enough to finish 2nd to Hurrican Fly in the Champion Hurdle the year after. Just didn't take to fences the year after.

I did umm and arr about him, he was a horse I was very fond of at the time - but it helped my arguement to balance it out as 50% to not have him

I think he's debatable as not classy though, given Quevega 's definition....

[DenmanSacre]

I did umm and arr about him, he was a horse I was very fond of at the time - but it helped my arguement to balance it out as 50% to not have him

I think he's debatable as not classy though, given Quevega 's definition....

One of my favourite horses in that period. Did achieve higher ratings than Yorkhill, Envoi Allen, Samcro and Simonsig. Pretty impressive seeing as chase marks are overinflated IMO compared to hurdles these days.

Mikael D' Haguenet was another who won the Ballymore, couldn't jump fences and was never the same.

[ToniC]

Fwiw, Gordon has had 4 horses place in the Bartlett from 10 runners, which is about as respectable as it gets in that race and the fact he’s not had a winner yet is no doubt just variance.

of the 4 that placed, three of them ran in the race that has been namecheked for Hollow Games at the DRF so that has to be a positive for his chances. 5 of his subsequent Bartlett runners ran in that race so to get 3 placing at the festival on the back of it shows it’s a good prep vs other races he has used.

It wouldn’t look good for Ginto should he come here though, whilst the majority (6/10) of Gordon’s potato race runners had not previously ran over 2 miles and 7 or upwards, the vast majority (8/10) had at least 1 run over a minimum of 2m6 - and 4/4 that finished in the places had previously raced over a distance of at least 2m6 (only 2/4 that placed had gone beyond 2m6 prior to the festival).

Small sample to work with, but you’ve got to piss with the dick you’ve got I suppose, and history would favour HG here and Ginto in the Ballymore

[Kevloaf]

Fwiw, Gordon has had 4 horses place in the Bartlett from 10 runners, which is about as respectable as it gets in that race and the fact he’s not had a winner yet is no doubt just variance.

of the 4 that placed, three of them ran in the race that has been namecheked for Hollow Games at the DRF so that has to be a positive for his chances. 5 of his subsequent Bartlett runners ran in that race so to get 3 placing at the festival on the back of it shows it’s a good prep vs other races he has used.

It wouldn’t look good for Ginto should he come here though, whilst the majority (6/10) of Gordon’s potato race runners had not previously ran over 2 miles and 7 or upwards, the vast majority (8/10) had at least 1 run over a minimum of 2m6 - and 4/4 that finished in the places had previously raced over a distance of at least 2m6 (only 2/4 that placed had gone beyond 2m6 prior to the festival).

Small sample to work with, but you’ve got to piss with the dick you’ve got I suppose, and history would favour HG here and Ginto in the Ballymore

I think you've posted this in the wrong thread, given we're in the Ballymore one... but I agree, think they're good points.

[Lbur4288]

Small sample to work with, but you’ve got to piss with the dick you’ve got I suppose,

This is not at all related to anything horse racing, let alone Cheltenham but that is a fantastic quote I intend to overuse to the wife.

[ToniC]

I think you've posted this in the wrong thread, given we're in the Ballymore one... but I agree, think they're good points.

Oops I’ll blame it on it being a long couple of weeks, to be honest I’d struggle to tell you what day it’s been so getting the wrong thread par for the course. Back to normality tomorrow