2023 Champion Hurdle

[robith]

Henderson is such a waste man.

If he came and said "Look, I want a string of 1s on my top horses, I train them with one day in mind and I'll pull them if I think there's the slightest doubt" I'd be like fair play

But the way he constantly implies running NATIONAL HUNT race horses on ground conditions that are the slightest bit un-ideal is dangerous........is, frankly, dangerous

[FinalFurlong91]

Willie pulled out flame bearer and ferny hollow lost week for the same reason

And Nicholls did it with monmiral 2 or 3 times

They don't like starting there good horses on autumn good ground when there's a long season ahead

[DenmanSacre]

If he does pull him, does that force his hand to send him to Newcastle and take on Epatante? What other races are available to him?

[Rooster Booster]

Henderson is such a waste man.

If he came and said "Look, I want a string of 1s on my top horses, I train them with one day in mind and I'll pull them if I think there's the slightest doubt" I'd be like fair play

But the way he constantly implies running NATIONAL HUNT race horses on ground conditions that are the slightest bit un-ideal is dangerous........is, frankly, dangerous

If as many humans died in the name of sport as horses die in the pursuit of our chosen sport I think pretty much everybody would deem that sport unacceptably dangerous. Let’s just stop and take stock for a second, this is a dangerous sport for the horses if you add up fatalities, premature deaths, career ending injuries and all other lesser injuries that inflict pain, suffering or discomfort. We all accept it as a price we are prepared to pay in the pursuit of our fun and enjoyment but we should never lose sight of the fact that this is the backdrop of our sport.

I understand the point you are making is specific to ground conditions and your fierce objection to any inference that good ground increases risk (at all ends of the scale from fatalities to minor injuries) over soft ground. I am not going to debate that with you as I am not privy to the facts or statistics. Maybe those statistics do exist and if so it would be great for us all to avail ourselves of them so that we can understand the issue more deeply.

As much as I also get frustrated with risk averse trainers at times and as much as I will be enormously disappointed if we don’t get to see CH tomorrow I think it is also really important to keep perspective.

Considering all of his achievements and lifetimes dedication to the sport (maybe for longer than some of us have been alive for) I personally think Hendo deserves a little more respect from us than to be called a waste but I also respect your right to call him this and understand your reasons for doing so.

[robith]

RB, a valid riposte full of salient points.

But ultimately, the highest profile UK trainer is saying it isn't safe to race, in essence, and has done so repeatedly - surely that naturally implies that the other trainers dgaf.

Theyre his horses, he can do as he sees fit. As I said if he just went "nah" I'd accept it more. But it's that framing I take umbrage with - because that publicly framing of his opinion repeatedly (mostly, in my opinion to avoid grief - just look at how rattled he got by mild poking by Lydia) as Welfare is going to blow up in all our faces one day

[AaronLad]

If as many humans died in the name of sport as horses die in the pursuit of our chosen sport I think pretty much everybody would deem that sport unacceptably dangerous. Let’s just stop and take stock for a second, this is a dangerous sport for the horses if you add up fatalities, premature deaths, career ending injuries and all other lesser injuries that inflict pain, suffering or discomfort. We all accept it as a price we are prepared to pay in the pursuit of our fun and enjoyment but we should never lose sight of the fact that this is the backdrop of our sport.

I understand the point you are making is specific to ground conditions and your fierce objection to any inference that good ground increases risk (at all ends of the scale from fatalities to minor injuries) over soft ground. I am not going to debate that with you as I am not privy to the facts or statistics. Maybe those statistics do exist and if so it would be great for us all to avail ourselves of them so that we can understand the issue more deeply.

As much as I also get frustrated with risk averse trainers at times and as much as I will be enormously disappointed if we don’t get to see CH tomorrow I think it is also really important to keep perspective.

Considering all of his achievements and lifetimes dedication to the sport (maybe for longer than some of us have been alive for) I personally think Hendo deserves a little more respect from us than to be called a waste but I also respect your right to call him this and understand your reasons for doing so.

To compare a human life to an equine life specifically bred for sport isn't what i'd come to expect from your posts

[Rooster Booster]

RB, a valid riposte full of salient points.

But ultimately, the highest profile UK trainer is saying it isn't safe to race, in essence, and has done so repeatedly - surely that naturally implies that the other trainers dgaf.

Theyre his horses, he can do as he sees fit. As I said if he just went "nah" I'd accept it more. But it's that framing I take umbrage with - because that publicly framing of his opinion repeatedly (mostly, in my opinion to avoid grief - just look at how rattled he got by mild poking by Lydia) as Welfare is going to blow up in all our faces one day

Yes well perhaps it should do...we probably need it to and shouldn’t be afraid of the scrutiny because it’s often only when pressed by external forces that inward looking institutions (and imo the racing industry is one of the most inward looking , we know best, leave us alone industries around) become let’s say motivated to change.

I am a hypocrite and as guilty as anyone as I kind of know intuitively that the ultimate cost to the horses (across the scale of deaths through to minor injuries) is a price the vast majority of non racing people would consider way too high to pay. I count myself as an animal lover and would choose to follow a fucking fly around the room for 10 minutes to capture it and let it loose than swat it with a newspaper so how the fuck do I justify to myself that it’s ok for this to be my passion.

So let’s none of us pretend that Hendo is telling us or the world anything that we or the world doesn’t already know. The truth is the world doesnt care enough to do anything about it.

[Rooster Booster]

To compare a human life to an equine life specifically bred for sport isn't what i'd come to expect from your posts

I wasn’t doing that, I was merely pointing out that the definition of dangerous shouldn’t be different for horses as it is for humans

[AaronLad]

They are racehorses.. born and bred for sport. If it wasn't for sport they would end up in some French supermarket freezer. Fucking hell

[ComplyOrDie]

Just a gentle reminder that this is the Champion Hurdle thread.

By all means carry on the conversation (if you wish) but can future posts be in the 'General' thread please.

[charlie]

I don't think we'll see Constitution Hill today. Luke Harvey is close to the stable and it was very obvious he was paving the way for Nicky in what he was saying.

Interesting that State Man opens even money v Sharjah. They must really fancy him.

[Benjy23]

I don't think we'll see Constitution Hill today. Luke Harvey is close to the stable and it was very obvious he was paving the way for Nicky in what he was saying.

Interesting that State Man opens even money v Sharjah. They must really fancy him.

Edwardstone a NR due to going as well. Obviously unrelated in terms of connections but may set some sort of precedent....

Might take them both on with Teahupoo tomorrow

[Quevega]

I'd prefer he didn't run and runs in the Fighting fifth vs Epatante.
If, However, Nicky says he doesn't want them to meet, then he can get fucked.
Especially if he starts moaning about there's no other races for him till xmas blah de blah.

And to add.
As a Mullins fan boy and Henderson critique.
Willie's behaviour regarding the Morgiana was shitty of the highest order.
His only saving grace was their was no antepost market up.

Wish their was though as State Man was easily my pick, if the price had been right.
And Teahupoo's price would also have been a lot bigger.

[Quevega]

Aside from trainers relating safety to the good ground argument (which I agree is foolhardy).
The biggest issue I have as has been discussed before is the antiquated vocabulary.

Why call it good ground ?
The jockeys also describing the ground as perfect !!

It's clearly not, in some people's minds.

[That Horse]

The biggest issue I have as has been discussed before is the antiquated vocabulary.

Soft ground could be referred to as Henderson-esque ground