2023 Champion Hurdle

[Eggs]

…the evs for Constutution Hill has finally disappeared from Hills enhanced prices.

[BalthazarKing]

Do we think CH long term plan will just stay champion hurdle to cement legacy and break records or could they go chasing... 2025 Gold Cup anyone? The Dawn Run double

[Stormez]

Do we think CH long term plan will just stay champion hurdle to cement legacy and break records or could they go chasing... 2025 Gold Cup anyone? The Dawn Run double

I know someone on here thinks he’ll end up in a Gold Cup

[Exar Essay]

I know someone on here thinks he’ll end up in a Gold Cup

There is an interview with Buckley in the aftermath of that Supreme win where he says that he'd like to do it.

[Quevega]

Do we think CH long term plan will just stay champion hurdle to cement legacy and break records or could they go chasing... 2025 Gold Cup anyone? The Dawn Run double

I think this may depend upon Hendersons Novice hurdlers this year and how they do at the festival.
The Champion Hurdle would likley be there for the taking, as Honeysuckle is not going to be a threat in 2024, and nothing else at this stage is within a stone of her, and 2 stone of Constitution.

They won't do it - but if I was them I'd go Novice chasing in between hurdle grade 1's, or at the very least novice chasing most of the season then Champion hurdle.
Or another option they won't do is go novice chasing and then straight to the Queen Mother instead of arkle.

Both options allow for an eventual crack at becoming a legend and going for a Gold cup in 2025 at the age of 8.

Poncing around in novice chaser's with a 180 rated animal at odds of 1/20 is not fun for anyone.

[Captain Chris]

I think this may depend upon Hendersons Novice hurdlers this year and how they do at the festival.
The Champion Hurdle would likley be there for the taking, as Honeysuckle is not going to be a threat in 2024, and nothing else at this stage is within a stone of her, and 2 stone of Constitution.

They won't do it - but if I was them I'd go Novice chasing in between hurdle grade 1's, or at the very least novice chasing most of the season then Champion hurdle.
Or another option they won't do is go novice chasing and then straight to the Queen Mother instead of arkle.

Both options allow for an eventual crack at becoming a legend and going for a Gold cup in 2025 at the age of 8.

Poncing around in novice chaser's with a 180 rated animal at odds of 1/20 is not fun for anyone.

Completely with you here, assuming he jumps a fence well. Horses spend such a little time in their career at the level they are supposed to be at. Once you're 5, you make a choice imo. Novice hurdling (if you haven't done it yet) or novice chasing. After that, you're in with the big boys. None of this winning Arkles at 8 bullshit

[FinalFurlong91]

Completely with you here, assuming he jumps a fence well. Horses spend such a little time in their career at the level they are supposed to be at. Once you're 5, you make a choice imo. Novice hurdling (if you haven't done it yet) or novice chasing. After that, you're in with the big boys. None of this winning Arkles at 8 bullshit

First thing they need to do is say bumpers are only for 4 and 5 year olds

Or get rid of them completely, who actually wants to see jumps horses running in flat races

Novice hurdles should be where jumps horses learn to race not wasting a season running in flat races

[riccirich]

ComplyOrDie

Ground conditions pretty quick at Newcastle though for the fighting fifth, how often has that been the case this century? If not very often then he surely had a big advantage over most of the other winners of the race this century.
Ground conditions on the first day at cheltenham also looked the quickest we’ve seen in many a year, and the front two set him up like it was a time trial, not to be a Debbie downer

[AaronLad]

ComplyOrDie

Ground conditions pretty quick at Newcastle though for the fighting fifth, how often has that been the case this century? If not very often then he surely had a big advantage over most of the other winners of the race this century.
Ground conditions on the first day at cheltenham also looked the quickest we’ve seen in many a year, and the front two set him up like it was a time trial, not to be a Debbie downer

But he was able to race prominently with the front two never letting them out of his range and then power away up the hill in the supreme, He finished in a time 20 lengths quicker than the champion hurdle on the exact same quickest ground we've seen at cheltenham in many a year.
Be a Debbie downer all you like, but it wasn't as though the fighting fifth was set up like a time trial for him, he made his own running and probably could've done it even quicker had he been asked too. Anything can happen in racing and if that's the way you are inclined to see things then that's your choice, The rest of us will just revel in this magnificent racehorse.

[ComplyOrDie]

But he was able to race prominently with the front two never letting them out of his range and then power away up the hill in the supreme, He finished in a time 20 lengths quicker than the champion hurdle on the exact same quickest ground we've seen at cheltenham in many a year.
Be a Debbie downer all you like, but it wasn't as though the fighting fifth was set up like a time trial for him, he made his own running and probably could've done it even quicker had he been asked too. Anything can happen in racing and if that's the way you are inclined to see things then that's your choice, The rest of us will just revel in this magnificent racehorse.

These are key points. Jonbon was left absolutely out on his arse in the Supreme and Constitution Hill quickened away having gone with the pace,it was freakish. We're just very lucky to witness such performances from him.

My reasons (in no particular order) for not having doubts about Constitution Hill are as follows:

• Visually he's looked like an absolutely superstar
• Time analysis back up his visual performances
• RPR's back up the above
• OR's also back the above
• He's versatile when it comes to ground
• He's tactically versatile
• He's got the right bloodline for the game and more so for Cheltenham (will come onto this in the NH Sires thread a bit later on today)
• His form is working out plenty well enough

I had another couple of points, but they've escaped me for now, so will potentially add these when I can remember them.

The one issue I think many have with Constitution Hill now is his price, especially if you've not already backed him. Some people are searching for holes that are currently not visible.

Even IF he does beat Honeysuckle I'm sure some will just use the excuse that she wasn't in her prime, which would be incredibly boring, but expected.

[Birds Nest]

These are key points. Jonbon was left absolutely out on his arse in the Supreme and Constitution Hill quickened away having gone with the pace,it was freakish. We're just very lucky to witness such performances from him.

My reasons (in no particular order) for not having doubts about Constitution Hill are as follows:

• Visually he's looked like an absolutely superstar
• Time analysis back up his visual performances
• RPR's back up the above
• OR's also back the above
• He's versatile when it comes to ground
• He's tactically versatile
• He's got the right bloodline for the game and more so for Cheltenham (will come onto this in the NH Sires thread a bit later on today)
• His form is working out plenty well enough

I had another couple of points, but they've escaped me for now, so will potentially add these when I can remember them.

The one issue I think many have with Constitution Hill now is his price, especially if you've not already backed him. Some people are searching for holes that are currently not visible.

Even IF he does beat Honeysuckle I'm sure some will just use the excuse that she wasn't in her prime, which would be incredibly boring, but expected.

I'd like to add his temperament to list, hendo never fails to mention how laid back this horse is.

[Saxon Warrior]

ComplyOrDie
Love your Constitution Hill post

I've been waiting 40 years to see a hurdler that could take me back to the Champion Hurdle days of Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon and Monksfield - that made that race my favourite race, in the calendar.

Each Champion Hurdle winner is special to their owners, supporters and punters.

I've fingers crossed that Constitution Hill can add to that list of winners in March.

I've not seen a 2M Hurdler as good as him, in those 40 years.

I dont need to wait,
I dont need sectionals
I don't need any more proof

All 4 of his races have been special.

He's been the best Supreme Novice Hurdle winner in those 40 years, by some way.

That race proved to me that he was the best Id seen in 40 years.

We all have our own perceptions, and some will agree and disagree.

Some will want to wait.
Some will want to see longevity and some will just know now.

No-one is wrong to make assessments either way.

I've studied that race all my life.
I've got my own views on See You Then and Istabraq and Hardy Eustace and Buveur DAir etc.

I love them all.
They've won my favourite race, some multiple times.

This new fellah has taken me back to feeling like a young teenage boy again, revelling in that Monksfield, Sea Pigeon and Night Nurse 6 year era of dominating the race.

No other Champion Hurdle winner or 2M Hurdler has made me feel like that, about the race, since those days.

I thank him for it now.
I'm looking forward to the next race he runs in like the happy race-loving teenager I was back then.

Thank you Constitution Hill

I hope you get the chance to shine in March, in the race that captured my love for NH racing all those years ago.

[ComplyOrDie]

I'd like to add his temperament to list, hendo never fails to mention how laid back this horse is.

Ah yes, seemingly one of the most laid back horses he's ever had. That helps him massively.

[ComplyOrDie]

Love it Saxon Warrior

I do hope he continues to do what he's been doing for a long time to come.

Yes, we love competitive racing, but racing also needs superstars, whether that be on the flat or NH. They are ultimately the ones that get the hairs on the back of your neck to stand up. He's one of them horses for me. An emotional attachment too, if you like.

[riccirich]

But he was able to race prominently with the front two never letting them out of his range and then power away up the hill in the supreme, He finished in a time 20 lengths quicker than the champion hurdle on the exact same quickest ground we've seen at cheltenham in many a year.
Be a Debbie downer all you like, but it wasn't as though the fighting fifth was set up like a time trial for him, he made his own running and probably could've done it even quicker had he been asked too. Anything can happen in racing and if that's the way you are inclined to see things then that's your choice, The rest of us will just revel in this magnificent racehorse.

He raced prominently sure, but he didn’t take them on for the lead, they fought for that between themselves. The champion hurdle was not run at as quick a pace in the early stages as the supreme, which of course leads to a slower time, if you take that literally then con hill was already 20lbs+ better than honeysuckle as a novice, which if you rely on ratings, will tell you he wasn’t. The fighting fifth was not set up like a time trial, my point was that people raving over him breaking the best time record might want to remember that race is run on soft ground a lot, conditions were pretty quick for him which gave him an advantage over a lot of previous winners in that regard.

From a betting perspective I prefer to question short price faves until I feel they have conclusively proven they deserve to be so short, I find it much more beneficial than raving that they are all freaks and monsters, not saying that’s what you do just speaking generally. And at the moment I don’t feel two impressive wins on the clock on quick ground deserve to see him over four times lower price than honeysuckle, and also don’t feel that those two wins make him a magnificent racehorse we should revel in and not even bother to check for holes to see if there is a betting opportunity against him if he has been overrated.

All if that is purely from a betting perspective, but my initial thought lto was also that he is very special, and I hope he is, but labeling him unbeatable at this point is incredibly premature imo. I feel like I would have gotten similar responses for questioning the likes of samcro, envoi Allen and bob Olinger etc and been given reasons why the latest freak is freakier than the last and this time they’re the real deal, I am far more convinced by con hill than I was by any of those three, but I’d still have reservations until he actually goes and destroys honeysuckle like everyone seems so sure of, and I won’t be disappointed if he does, I’d be just as happy as anyone to see a wonderful racehorse.