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Supreme Novices Hurdle 2020

Keith sounds like a very excited man.... Which I suppose is understandable.
 
Absolutely bonkers for people to be calling for Envoi Allen for the Champion Hurdle.

The stage of this season has been a reminder how hard it can be for the top novices to make the step up into open company (Klassical Dream, Delta Work) let alone for horses who haven't had a full season in novice company and a summer to come on both physically and mentally.

Yes there are examples of past horses who have done so but it would be a very short sighted approach which has far more chance of having a negative impact in the long term. If he is the best horse they have ever had (which would be some going) then you'd surely do everything you can do bring him on over the next 2 seasons to be a Gold Cup horse, which is what his long term aim will be. No matter how easy the CH may look, it'll still be a harder race to take in than the Supreme / Ballymore
 
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jono said:
Absolutely bonkers for people to be calling for Envoi Allen for the Champion Hurdle.

The stage of this season has been a reminder how hard it can be for the top novices to make the step up into open company (Klassical Dream, Delta Work) let alone for horses who haven't had a full season in novice company and a summer to come on both physically and mentally.

Yes there are examples of past horses who have done so but it would be a very short sighted approach which has far more chance of having a negative impact in the long term.
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Spot on Jono
 
jono said:
Absolutely bonkers for people to be calling for Envoi Allen for the Champion Hurdle.

The stage of this season has been a reminder how hard it can be for the top novices to make the step up into open company (Klassical Dream, Delta Work) let alone for horses who haven't had a full season in novice company and a summer to come on both physically and mentally.

Yes there are examples of past horses who have done so but it would be a very short sighted approach which has far more chance of having a negative impact in the long term. If he is the best horse they have ever had (which would be some going) then you'd surely do everything you can do bring him on over the next 2 seasons to be a Gold Cup horse, which is what his long term aim will be. No matter how easy the CH may look, it'll still be a harder race to take in than the Supreme / Ballymore
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It would be the Ballymore for me but if they decide to drop him to two miles then I'd go Champion over the Supreme.
 
Agree with Faugheen that Ballymore would be correct choice but the CH might be an easier race than Supreme
 
Pendil said:
Agree with Faugheen that Ballymore would be correct choice but the CH might be an easier race than Supreme
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What! Are you serious?
 
I think it's incredibly deceptive to think the CH is potentially weaker then the Supreme. There's a big difference between the 2 divisions. It's far too easy to look at the up and coming novices full of potential and think they can easily step up. And it's way way too early to be deciding how strong the Supreme is. Considering the best 2 miler so far this season aside from Envoi Allen is Abacadabras and he's been well held in 3 runs now.
EA at this stage has nothing to fear in the Supreme
 
jono said:
I think it's incredibly deceptive to think the CH is potentially weaker then the Supreme. There's a big difference between the 2 divisions. It's far too easy to look at the up and coming novices full of potential and think they can easily step up. And it's way way too early to be deciding how strong the Supreme is. Considering the best 2 miler so far this season aside from Envoi Allen is Abacadabras and he's been well held in 3 runs now.
EA at this stage has nothing to fear in the Supreme
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I don't think the CH would be a weaker race. My thinking is that he won't be running over hurdles next season whatever happens. The CH looks very winnable at this stage and EA looks like a potential superstar so far.

His best trip is going to be further than 2 miles but if they think about stepping back it's the Champion they should go for - he certainly wouldn't be out of place in it.
 
It would be interesting to see what a proper top novice could do in a Champ Hurdle. Youd have to think he'd go close?? I accept that it might not be the best thing for his career long term. Do Novices get an allowance anyone??
 
Its looking a weak renewal of CH in 2020. Both races run same day/same conditions and the time for the last 5 years is pretty similar. The pace in the Supreme is more frenetic early on. And by the time next March we will hopefully be looking at a battle hardened EA unbeaten in 9 races. So what is to fear going for the CH other than defeat which can hit any horse anytime any race
 
I'm not doubting that EA could be involved in the race and even win it. I'm as taken by him as most.

You can look at the likes of Coneygree in the Gold Cup, Moon Racer in this race, Thistlecrack in the King George but age and injuries were against them which isn't the case here. Or Apple's Jade bypassing the Mares for this race but she was established, in the middle of her career and had nothing to lose having ran in the Mares for the last 2 seasons. Again not the case here.

I just think you have the novice division there for a reason. You never know what is around the corner for racehorses so absolutely promote brave decisions and not bypassing clashes but don't push them into races "for a go" when they are only 5 and have no issues.

Ballymore winner at 6
JLT/RSA winner at 7
Gold Cup winner at 8

Perfect. 2-3 seasons of having a go in the Gold Cup and then drop him into the Cross Country at aged 11 (his size and nimbleness lookes ideal for the race :highly_amused:)

Willie Mullins wouldn't even consider running a novice hurdler in the Champion Hurdle would he? Look at the horses he's had in the Supreme/Ballymore over the years and he's the best around.
 
My first part was to say he should go for Bllymore - twas only if they decided to stay 2ml. I was all over EA for the Bumper last year even though Gordon didn't want to go. "he is a 3ml chaser in the making". He didn't realise because of Gigginstown refusal to send their best bumper horse/3ml chasers in the making that that is exactly what you want for the race. I know he won it with the mare Fayonagh.

Drifting a bit there:)
 
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If every Royal Bond winner (by just under 2 lengths) went for the champion hurdle.
And every handicap winner off a mark of 137.
The world would go mad.
The champion hurdle conversation has got weird this weekend
just because someone got a splinter.

This is how world wars start.
 
He’s one I have for the ballymore but encouraging to see an entry
 
Shishkin update Friday according to Hendo. Can’t wait to see him out. Stable number 1 for this
 
Scooby91 said:
You live for the hype Charlie, what's he done or beat?
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Hype? Has there been hype about Shishkin? He’s languishing down the betting at 33/1 because obviously he’s done nothing and beat nothing.
 
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