General Chat

[Istabraq]

Not antepost and NRNB it's not.

There are still 8 or more left in some races and they're all offering 2 places only.

They are just being dirty bastards, and also they may be factoring the lack of full fields come the day.

The big advantage we have this year if the Ultima just as an example ends up with just 14 or 15 is some of them have been offering us 5 places.

I saw the Arkle market earlier this week (pre decs) firms were quoting 2 places despite there being plenty more entered, I don’t recall seeing that before, but the Coral Cup will 100% have 16 or more runners, no bookie can offer less than 4 places.
The Ultima is a fair point, an unusual situation though I’m not sure what the max field is…

[Quevega]

I saw the Arkle market earlier this week (pre decs) firms were quoting 2 places despite there being plenty more entered, I don’t recall seeing that before, but the Coral Cup will 100% have 16 or more runners, no bookie can offer less than 4 places.
The Ultima is a fair point, an unusual situation though I’m not sure what the max field is…

The issue here is they obviously can offer the terms of their choosing prior to declarations, which is why many have opted for 2 places only - on races where there are still 8 or more.
They are expecting that there will be less come the day. Which is fine.

But I have not seen them do it with the big field handicaps before and they have only just done this as I've had bets with them at 5 places in the last few weeks.

I hope Paddy's have made an error myself, we'll see.

There are 3 or 4 handicaps that may be less than 16 on the day this year - the ultima was just an example.

[Istabraq]

The issue here is they obviously can offer the terms of their choosing prior to declarations.

I'm not sure they can, someone far cleverer than me may well know.
If this isn't an error I wonder what place terms they'll settle on if there are 16+ in the Coral Cup because at no point would there ever have been few enough numbers for anyone to quote reduced places.
I'd be interested to know the answer, though I'll 100% forget to bother checking...

[Quevega]

I'm not sure they can, someone far cleverer than me may well know.
If this isn't an error I wonder what place terms they'll settle on if there are 16+ in the Coral Cup because at no point would there ever have been few enough numbers for anyone to quote reduced places.
I'd be interested to know the answer, though I'll 100% forget to bother checking...

Is it your understanding then that......

Using the example of the arkle that has 9 runners still entered.
Even though they are offering only 2 places each way terms right now, at the prices listed ?

That should 8 or more get declared - any bets placed under these current terms would then get paid on three places ?

I'd doubt that personally as I'd expect that the prices listed account for the places on offer.

[Istabraq]

That should 8 or more get declared - any bets placed under these current terms would then get paid on three places ?

.

I believe so yes.
If bookies settle bets that differ with the rules of racing I would expect them to have to provide clear explanation on the betslip, I'm not sure by simply saying '3 places' is sufficient.
It's a bit like getting a speeding ticket for doing 50mph on a 40mph duel carriageway where you expect the limit to be 60mph and there are no 40mph signs...

[Quevega]

I believe so yes.
If bookies settle bets that differ with the rules of racing I would expect them to have to provide clear explanation on the betslip, I'm not sure by simply saying '3 places' is sufficient.
It's a bit like getting a speeding ticket for doing 50mph on a 40mph duel carriageway where you expect the limit to be 60mph and there are no 40mph signs...

Yes but when they price a market up the prices are usually related to the place terms, as you know.
So the price on an outsider with 3 places up for grabs will be shorter than it would be for only 2 places, if only 7 runners for example.

The sign analogy doesn't work in this respect as on my betslip for the arkle there is a clear sign that they are only paying me 2 places.

[Quevega]

I do get what you're saying Ista.
And it makes sense, and maybe PP are just edging their bets in case the actual declarations on some handicaps are below the 16. ?
Scummy stuff though if you ask me.

[Istabraq]

I do get what you're saying Ista.
And it makes sense, and maybe PP are just edging their bets in case the actual declarations on some handicaps are below the 16. ?
Scummy stuff though if you ask me.

As I said I'd like to know how it plays out so please let us know.
Could always ask the Gambling Commission but they're likely to be busy working out how much we can all afford to bet...

[thorne365]

There's a setting in their system that is used to stamp the places on a bet (used for golf and ap racing normally) - usually its someone's job to move from it being enabled (antepost) to disabled at post decs (racing rules) - I'd guess someone has already done this and is trading the races more in line with race day procedure, in which case you'll automatically get the day of race terms. Even if that's not the case I'd be 99.99% sure it would be amended - its definitely happened to me in the past at (probably) Epsom or Royal ascot

[Yosser]

It's only going to get worse folks. The bookies are the reason this is my last Cheltenham after booking the week off and betting on it for the past 15 years or so. They are just closing all the doors every year. God knows what it will look like this time next season. They are getting away with murder and being allowed to do it. Restrictions will get tighter, prices will get shorter and these terms will become more.

[Burrough Hill Man]

Just wondering if anyone takes breeding into consideration when trying to narrow down selections and if so how far do you go back.
A few examples I've come across are in the Ultma Whistle Stop Tours dam sire is Presenting who is 0-10 and Henry's Friend's dam sire is Milan who is 0-12.
Ballyburn's dam sire is Old Vic who is 0-6. There are others in different races but I think you get where I'm coming from.
Would that put you off ?

[Pisto]

I can't remember.
Must have stumbled on this site at some point after going to Cheltenham every year since the year after foot and mouth.
I think I've been doing antepost now for about 10 years or so, but consistently at this sort of level for the last 8 I reckon.

So I imagine at some point I found this site, then realised it was full of wankers and idiots showing off - But, with really useful information and some nice and funny people sprinkled within.
So I set about trying to weed some of the wankers out, so I could be the biggest wanker of them all.

Hardly any wankers these days compared to when I first joined that's for sure. (notice I've not mentioned idiots)
There were cocks and bollocks everywhere in the first few years.

A lot more genteel these days.
Bit more boring, but boring is good sometimes.

Like Politics, I fucking wish that was boring these days and not like fucking WWF.

I don’t think it’d take too much to be like WWF here , drop a few aftertimes and fudge prices/ diaries sit back and watch lol. Joking aside I like it here, loads of advice knowledge different angles etc. It’s also nice to see people’s long range fancies come in.

[Pisto]

It's interesting you mention Samcro. I saw somebody on Twitter mention Samcro for the Ballymore at 16-1 and decided to back him for whatever reason. I only casually watched jumps racing at the time. Every few weeks I'd check in to see how the horse was getting on and eventually it got to the day and to my surprise he only went and won! I decided I wanted a bit more of that and here we are.

That was the first year I came across this site, I’ve been betting for about 40 years and never once considered ante post betting before and I’ve been finding it equally enjoyable and frustrating

[Yosser]

That was the first year I came across this site, I’ve been betting for about 40 years and never once considered ante post betting before and I’ve been finding it equally enjoyable and frustrating

You get used to it Pisto. I am not one for just putting winners up. In book building you have to prepare yourself for about 30-40% loss before the meeting begins so have to claw both your losses and stakes back. I don't have access to cash out so others' losses could be about 20% i would imagine. That is the double edged sword we live and die on. I have just lost Croke Park today at 66/1 but still have the top 5 in the market and will cover Gorgeous Tom on the day. It's feasible that i will get the 1,2,3 in the race that wipes out the Croke Park, Chapeau De Soleil and Caldwell Potter losses. There might be 1 more but can't remember. That still gives me a healthy potential profit and can watch all the short priced runners at big(ger) prices with a smoking jacket and glass of brandy I made all losses back on day 1 last year then the rest was gravy so let's have it again

[HoldenTheReins]

Is anyone having issues with 365 and not showing cash out or unavailable since the entry update?

They are just grey.

Not has a message saying I've lost cash out either, very odd.