Cheltenham Festival Race Program

[Prestbury]

Prestbury
I'm listening to you !
It may be worth digging up last years threads on the subject, there were some interesting ideas from members.

You realise 4yo already get a 10lb allowance in the Supreme ?
And this encourages very very few of them to target the race, there's clearly a maturity issue concern from trainers in taking on horses fully two years older, there'll be a physical difference.

Re beefed up races, there is a danger you simply create what many of the Irish races currently look like, 20+ runners but only 3/4 serious runners.
There are times when the number of horses create issues rather than add to the spectacle, think National Hunt Chase and Foxhunters from 20+ years ago....

Thanks for listening Istabraq !

Its the 10lb allowance that makes it interesting for the 4yo in the Supreme. I can recall three 4yo who had proper chances in the Supreme in the past 30 years, Hors La Loi who won by 17 lengths (and only got an 8lb allowance), Binocular who was 2nd and Fakir Doudairies who was 4th (I'm sure there must be others but haven't looked all the way back). So the best 4yo are competitive in the Supreme - based on RPRs then all of the last 10 Triumph winners would have placed at least top 4 in the Supreme and a couple would have won. The reason that 4yo don't take the Supreme option is that the 4yo race is on balance the easier option (though not markedly so) and the option is given to them. I don't think there is a maturity concern - of the three horses mentioned above two went on to win a champion hurdle and the other was a multiple grade 1 winner so running in the Supreme hardly hurt them. In addition, Triumph horses are often more experienced than Supreme horses, either having had a flat campaign or been in training over hurdles from early in their 3yo career in France. East India Dock had run 14 times prior to the Triumph, Kopek Des Bordes just 3.

I think most would agree that East India Dock and Lulamba in the Supreme would have made for a more interesting race, Lossiemouth taking on Marine Nationale and Facuile Vega two years ago, Goshen taking on Shishkin, Defi Du Seuil in Labaik's year etc... If Cheltenham is about finding the best then they have to run against one another - based on RPRs Majborough would have been a clear winner of last years Supreme. The 4yo can still have their own championship race in the Anniversary at Aintree.

Re the "beefed up" races - there is a big difference between 20 runner Cheltenham races and run of the mill Irish races (maidens) - everyone's trying. Just go back 25 years and look at the field sizes, regularly 18+ runners in the Supreme (28 in 2002!) and double digit priced horses were in the first 3 virtually every year.

[robith]

If money was no eventuality, I would advocate taking one race a day off the card. It proper empties out after the feature and is pretty moody by the Unlucky Last

[Prestbury]

Keeping three Grade 1 Novice Hurdles shouldn't be an issue

Maybe it's the number on Early Entries and 6-Day Entries that could be tweaked to avoid the 3, 4, 5 or 6 Entries for horses, that is so confusing, and largely unnecessary.

Maybe a max 3 Early Entries
Max 2 Six-Day Entries
per horse
for example

You don't have to ditch races, just tweak the rules a bit.

If you really want to see the best vs the best then you have to force it to happen by taking away the multiple options that horses/trainers/owners have. Having 2m and 3m novice options at Cheltenham with intermediate championships at Aintree forces horses to take each other on whilst giving them all the opportunity over whichever trip. The two best novice hurdlers of this year are Kopek Des Bordes and The New Lion. They did not run against one another at Cheltenham. They will not meet again this season. If Kopek Des Bordes goes chasing then they will not ever meet over hurdles. If there was no mid distance novice then The New Lion would have run in the Supreme (and Final Demand and The Yellow Clay would likely have gone AB). They would all then have the opportunity to meet over the intermediate distance at Aintree (as long as it was planed appropriately with sufficient gap between the meetings).

With only 2m and 3m options for novices, a sufficient banding on novice hcaps (e.g. 0-140) and no novices in open handicaps then there would be no need for any more than 1 entry for any graded novice at the 6 day stage (and in reality most would know what this entry would be from a long way out). Similarly with the mares options - if a Lossiemouth can't run in a mares hurdle (because the race is run elsewhere, its capped, she's precluded or whatever) then she has only one entry and we have all known for a long while. Races can then be built up in the weeks before the Festival in the media with much more certainty (injury excepted) of what is going to line up.

The graded races are the "Olympics", the handicaps are just the fillers. Its the former that needs to be fixed - the big match ups at the top end is what draws the people in. We should be able to look at any championship race and say that every legitimate contender that can run in it (i.e. not injured) is there.

[Quevega]

If you really want to see the best vs the best then you have to force it to happen by taking away the multiple options that horses/trainers/owners have. Having 2m and 3m novice options at Cheltenham with intermediate championships at Aintree forces horses to take each other on whilst giving them all the opportunity over whichever trip. The two best novice hurdlers of this year are Kopek Des Bordes and The New Lion. They did not run against one another at Cheltenham. They will not meet again this season. If Kopek Des Bordes goes chasing then they will not ever meet over hurdles. If there was no mid distance novice then The New Lion would have run in the Supreme (and Final Demand and The Yellow Clay would likely have gone AB). They would all then have the opportunity to meet over the intermediate distance at Aintree (as long as it was planed appropriately with sufficient gap between the meetings).

With only 2m and 3m options for novices, a sufficient banding on novice hcaps (e.g. 0-140) and no novices in open handicaps then there would be no need for any more than 1 entry for any graded novice at the 6 day stage (and in reality most would know what this entry would be from a long way out). Similarly with the mares options - if a Lossiemouth can't run in a mares hurdle (because the race is run elsewhere, its capped, she's precluded or whatever) then she has only one entry and we have all known for a long while. Races can then be built up in the weeks before the Festival in the media with much more certainty (injury excepted) of what is going to line up.

The graded races are the "Olympics", the handicaps are just the fillers. Its the former that needs to be fixed - the big match ups at the top end is what draws the people in. We should be able to look at any championship race and say that every legitimate contender that can run in it (i.e. not injured) is there.

Bang on.

The Olympics analogy does fall down a little, unless you class break dancing on a par with the 100m final.

I agree the number of entries any horse can make should be limited, as I mentioned in my main post on this subject.
But that's just a minor issue compared to the overall issues the festival has.
And like you say, making other changes would alleviate this naturally anyhow.

As I said previously, the novice hurdlers having four grade ones is on thin ice for sure.
And randomly out of all of them, the Mares novice seems to be progressing nicely in terms of numbers and competitiveness, whilst also producing different owners and trainers with winners in recent times.

[Saxon Warrior]

The biggest issue on Cheltenham Changes is never linking it to the Aintree meeting (both courses owned by the Jockey Club) and if moved to 4 weeks apart permanently, and the changes to the races being linked across the two meetings it could easily be solved.

I'd love Aintree to be the land of the midtrip Grade 1's

2M4F Grade 1
●Juvenile Hurdle (2M2F or 2M2F)
●Novice Hurdle
●Novice Chase
●Open Hurdle
●Open Chase

....and none if these to also take place at Cheltenham

Cheltenham to be the land of the 2M and 3M Grade 1's

●Triumph
●Supreme
●Bartlett
●Arkle
●BANC
●Champion Hurdle
●Stayers Hurdle
●Champion Chase
●Gold Cup

Mares only races at Grade 2 levels could fill in at either courses.

Brings Some purity to things, drops Aintree mimicking Cheltenham a bit.