2025 Mares Hurdle

[Quevega]

It's been quite prominent on here in years gone by how Willie makes the decisions (with the exception of JP) and now suddenly Rich Ricci gets to call the shots too. I'm not having that.

Willie will be a huge factor in the decision making, and it won't just be down to Ricci.

Trainer and owner are both culpable should they decide to 'bottle it' and go for the easier race.

Once again, if any horse has the right to go for the easier race it's Brighterdaysahead, IMO.

I don't care what she's done this season, State Man hasn't been the same horse, and I won't have anyone tell me any different. It's a shame Lossiemouth fell as I honestly feel that would have been the confirmation required as to the level State Man has been running at this season.

Brighterdaysahead got beat at the festival last season by Golden Ace, yes, maybe some excuses, but still, Golden Ace.

This is her first season out of novice company. Lossiemouth was afforded the luxury of going down the Mares Hurdle route for one season, albeit she was coming out of juvenile company, but I could afford Brighterdaysahead the same, should that be what they decide.

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

[Rooster Booster]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

I was really struggling with that piece in quotations too …

[Benjy23]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

Isn't it Willie just trying to deflect the bottling...

[Carnage at Taunton]

Agreed.
But he beat Lossiemouth quite cosily, so it's still solid form, as good as would have been expected after the lay off.
His supreme win was perfectly set up for him by the fast pace set up by Dysart and jonbon, he picked them off with ease.
If Gordon's mob try the same in the champion hurdle as they did with state man at xmas, constitution hill will get the chance to better his supreme effort, so let's hope they try

Yep, that’s what we need to happen for the chance to see if CH can get near his best performances imo.
If we can get KOK and BDA in the race, that’s how it could happen.
If they are both declared we know then how the race will go, maybe Burdett as well.
And Nico hopefully will need to take the handbrake off !!

[ComplyOrDie]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

I can see Willie making the decisions. Obviously discusses with RR, but for me Willie decides. I've not been shown any clear evidence to the contrary.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?

I'm looking at it from another point of view, the owners, they've lost their shoo-in for a winner at the festival, now the Cross Country has been turned into a handicap, and think they'll just want a winner regardless, plus I do think they call the shots of their horses. Gordon, I agree, would go for the Champion Hurdle with her, but unlike Willie, I don't think Gordon calls the shots when it comes to the Gigginstown horses.

[ComplyOrDie]

Isn't it Willie just trying to deflect the bottling...

Yep, IMO.

RR couldn't care less what people think of him, remember Vautour, 'Gold Cup or nothing', under the bus you go Rich!

[Rooster Booster]

Somebody in the BHA needs to read this thread, take note of the thread title and let it sink in that the whole thread is being dominated by talk of the Champion Hurdle. July Flower is third favourite and hasn’t been mentioned for months now. It’s like she and all other mares don’t exist and wont exist until the fate of the big two is known.

[ComplyOrDie]

Somebody in the BHA needs to read this thread, take note of the thread title and let it sink in that the whole thread is being dominated by talk of the Champion Hurdle. July Flower is third favourite and hasn’t been mentioned for months now. It’s like she and all other mares don’t exist and wont exist until the fate of the big two is known.

I agree with this

[AaronLad]

He’s not even got close to his peak in TWO years….blind faith. The absence of a negative is not a positive.

But he hasn't had to.
Whether he will need to reach his peak to win the champion hurdle depends on who turns up.
He's already beaten one of his main market rivals after a year off.
The only one who could actually trouble him on what we've seen from him in the last TWO years is BDA and she's got the option of the Mares.
Hardly blind faith is it

[Quevega]

Final word, as it must be boring for many.
I can discuss all day on the workings etc, as you can tell.
And I know which ones are winding it up as well

Anyone who thinks that most owners do not have final word on what happens with their own property is daft. IMO.
I'm talking about proper owners here by the way and not syndicates and other methods of ownership where the terms are often different and the ownership more cloudy and complicated.

But Most fully fledged owners pay trainers for their experience, training expertise, knowledge and advice.
That's all.

Don't get me wrong, some will go into it with an open mind and will accept all advice without question. Ricci may well be one of those, most of the time.


Jackie used an analogy the other day about not telling a michelin starred chef how to cook.
Absolutely. agree.

But a really poor analogy.
Because like I said before, If you own the restaurant/horse and pay his wages, but value his skills as a chef/trainer.
You'd be mental to try and tell him how to cook/train your horse.

But just as fucking mental if you accept him telling you what to fucking eat, where to eat and what fucking time to eat. And paying him a fortune to do so.
While he fucks your wife.

I'll say no more.

[Lobos]

Although recently he has left the door open by saying if Rich wants to go that way they could.

Believe RR regretted not going CH a little last year so if she's A1 then I reckon he'll let her fly this time. That fall though is a big worry. Read yesterday that out of the last 250 runners or so that ran at the fez with an 'F' next to it's name on its last run, just 6 won. It's a massive negative for me and I'm one of her biggest fans and was desperate for her to run in the big one at the top of her game. It's not going to happen now imo.

[Lobos]

If both KOK and BDA go off like scalded cats again in the Champion Hurdle, do we think that the other 'big 3' will all try and keep pace with them or run their own races in the hope she cant do a Leopardstown at Cheltenham?? If any of them try to go with her early doors then isn't that likely to be to the detriment of their chances ??

[ComplyOrDie]

If both KOK and BDA go off like scalded cats again in the Champion Hurdle, do we think that the other 'big 3' will all try and keep pace with them or run their own races in the hope she cant do a Leopardstown at Cheltenham?? If any of them try to go with her early doors then isn't that likely to be to the detriment of their chances ??

I'd say big 2. Can't be having State Man based on what I've seen from him this season.

Lossiemouth got outpaced early on in the Christmas Hurdle but they were going a fair gallop at Leopardstown, so don't think she'd have an issue keeping up now. Constitution Hill can go the gallop, he won't be too far away, I wouldn't suspect. If anything the pace may see him to better effect.

BDA certainly a strong stayer over 2m though, should they go down that route with her.

[Lobos]

I'd say big 2. Can't be having State Man based on what I've seen from him this season.

Lossiemouth got outpaced early on in the Christmas Hurdle but they were going a fair gallop at Leopardstown, so don't think she'd have an issue keeping up now. Constitution Hill can go the gallop, he won't be too far away, I wouldn't suspect. If anything the pace may see him to better effect.

BDA certainly a strong stayer over 2m though, should they go down that route with her.

Have either travelled at that pace before in their races ? Were State Man and Lossiemouth travelling as quick last time ? Someone on here must have done the timings.

[Carnage at Taunton]

If both KOK and BDA go off like scalded cats again in the Champion Hurdle, do we think that the other 'big 3' will all try and keep pace with them or run their own races in the hope she cant do a Leopardstown at Cheltenham?? If any of them try to go with her early doors then isn't that likely to be to the detriment of their chances ??

For me, that’s when we find out how CH is.
Nico will lay want to tuck in just off the pace and if CH is still as good or very near he will do that comfortably and take it up whenever he’s asked.
If he’s way off the pace then imo he’s not able to keep up and that’s a worry.
That’s obviously if the front two are in the same form as last time.