2025 Mares Hurdle

[ComplyOrDie]

Somebody in the BHA needs to read this thread, take note of the thread title and let it sink in that the whole thread is being dominated by talk of the Champion Hurdle. July Flower is third favourite and hasn’t been mentioned for months now. It’s like she and all other mares don’t exist and wont exist until the fate of the big two is known.

I agree with this

[Rooster Booster]

Somebody in the BHA needs to read this thread, take note of the thread title and let it sink in that the whole thread is being dominated by talk of the Champion Hurdle. July Flower is third favourite and hasn’t been mentioned for months now. It’s like she and all other mares don’t exist and wont exist until the fate of the big two is known.

[ComplyOrDie]

Isn't it Willie just trying to deflect the bottling...

Yep, IMO.

RR couldn't care less what people think of him, remember Vautour, 'Gold Cup or nothing', under the bus you go Rich!

[ComplyOrDie]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

I can see Willie making the decisions. Obviously discusses with RR, but for me Willie decides. I've not been shown any clear evidence to the contrary.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?

I'm looking at it from another point of view, the owners, they've lost their shoo-in for a winner at the festival, now the Cross Country has been turned into a handicap, and think they'll just want a winner regardless, plus I do think they call the shots of their horses. Gordon, I agree, would go for the Champion Hurdle with her, but unlike Willie, I don't think Gordon calls the shots when it comes to the Gigginstown horses.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Agreed.
But he beat Lossiemouth quite cosily, so it's still solid form, as good as would have been expected after the lay off.
His supreme win was perfectly set up for him by the fast pace set up by Dysart and jonbon, he picked them off with ease.
If Gordon's mob try the same in the champion hurdle as they did with state man at xmas, constitution hill will get the chance to better his supreme effort, so let's hope they try

Yep, that’s what we need to happen for the chance to see if CH can get near his best performances imo.
If we can get KOK and BDA in the race, that’s how it could happen.
If they are both declared we know then how the race will go, maybe Burdett as well.
And Nico hopefully will need to take the handbrake off !!

[Benjy23]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

Isn't it Willie just trying to deflect the bottling...

[Rooster Booster]

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

I was really struggling with that piece in quotations too …

[Quevega]

It's been quite prominent on here in years gone by how Willie makes the decisions (with the exception of JP) and now suddenly Rich Ricci gets to call the shots too. I'm not having that.

Willie will be a huge factor in the decision making, and it won't just be down to Ricci.

Trainer and owner are both culpable should they decide to 'bottle it' and go for the easier race.

Once again, if any horse has the right to go for the easier race it's Brighterdaysahead, IMO.

I don't care what she's done this season, State Man hasn't been the same horse, and I won't have anyone tell me any different. It's a shame Lossiemouth fell as I honestly feel that would have been the confirmation required as to the level State Man has been running at this season.

Brighterdaysahead got beat at the festival last season by Golden Ace, yes, maybe some excuses, but still, Golden Ace.

This is her first season out of novice company. Lossiemouth was afforded the luxury of going down the Mares Hurdle route for one season, albeit she was coming out of juvenile company, but I could afford Brighterdaysahead the same, should that be what they decide.

How can you not see that Willie persuaded Ricci to go down the mares route last season as a 5 year old, offering up the 2 year plan as a carrot.
It made sense to all and left them with 2 odds on favourites for the 2 grade one hurdles on day one. Mission accomplished.

This season, Willie has steadfastly stuck to this, and merely suggested that Ricci might opt to veer from it.
I think if BDA declares for the Champion then Willie will definitely bring the matter up, and may even push for it, but will likely let Ricci have last say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely certain that most trainers do the full Derren Brown on many owners and make them think they have the last say when that's often an illusion.

And there is a big difference between calling the shots and making a group decision, involving advice and discussion - with one party having the sway.
Definitely all involved take responsibility I agree with that.

I suppose with regards BDA connections, The O'leary's in particular because I'm certain Gordon would go Champion if left to him.

I just don't get it !!
Why are you even in the sport, if you don't want to try and win a Champion hurdle when you have the horse of a lifetime. ?


I've chosen to ignore the "I don't care what she's done this season". I get your thought process, but in general it's flawed.

[Rooster Booster]

Quevega I understand that constitution hill might not have looked overly convincing on his first start for a year in the xmas hurdle, but since then lump sum who was beaten by half a furlong that day has run a very good race in the betfair hurdle the other day, now rated 147, and he's arguably shown that's his rating, his other run this season he chased home Sir gino.

Burdett road I believe is slightly underestimated, and con hill has ultimately beat lossiemouth with ease that day, all things considered, race fitness etc.

He then had a comfortable jog round cheltenham until the final hurdle, but what that infact showed was hes as sharp as ever to react as quickly as he did to get his legs in a position to land without falling.

So while it may appear to some constitution hill isn't at his peak, to me he's not done anything to suggest otherwise and he'll batter them all

He’s not even got close to his peak in TWO years….blind faith. The absence of a negative is not a positive.

[AaronLad]

Yeah, in general though he's not ran to the level of his supreme since that day.
Maybe got close in his champion hurdle.

But I get that he's not had the perfect opportunity to do so, in the races he's had since.

Lump sum is a mid 140's handicapper and any form through him at this level means jack shit IMO.

Agreed.
But he beat Lossiemouth quite cosily, so it's still solid form, as good as would have been expected after the lay off.
His supreme win was perfectly set up for him by the fast pace set up by Dysart and jonbon, he picked them off with ease.
If Gordon's mob try the same in the champion hurdle as they did with state man at xmas, constitution hill will get the chance to better his supreme effort, so let's hope they try

[Quevega]

Quevega I understand that constitution hill might not have looked overly convincing on his first start for a year in the xmas hurdle, but since then lump sum who was beaten by half a furlong that day has run a very good race in the betfair hurdle the other day, now rated 147, and he's arguably shown that's his rating, his other run this season he chased home Sir gino.

Burdett road I believe is slightly underestimated, and con hill has ultimately beat lossiemouth with ease that day, all things considered, race fitness etc.

He then had a comfortable jog round cheltenham until the final hurdle, but what that infact showed was hes as sharp as ever to react as quickly as he did to get his legs in a position to land without falling.

So while it may appear to some constitution hill isn't at his peak, to me he's not done anything to suggest otherwise and he'll batter them all

Yeah, in general though he's not ran to the level of his supreme since that day.
Maybe got close in his champion hurdle.

But I get that he's not had the perfect opportunity to do so, in the races he's had since.

Lump sum is a mid 140's handicapper and any form through him at this level means jack shit IMO.

[ComplyOrDie]

It's been quite prominent on here in years gone by how Willie makes the decisions (with the exception of JP) and now suddenly Rich Ricci gets to call the shots too. I'm not having that.

Willie will be a huge factor in the decision making, and it won't just be down to Ricci.

Trainer and owner are both culpable should they decide to 'bottle it' and go for the easier race.

Once again, if any horse has the right to go for the easier race it's Brighterdaysahead, IMO.

I don't care what she's done this season, State Man hasn't been the same horse, and I won't have anyone tell me any different. It's a shame Lossiemouth fell as I honestly feel that would have been the confirmation required as to the level State Man has been running at this season.

Brighterdaysahead got beat at the festival last season by Golden Ace, yes, maybe some excuses, but still, Golden Ace.

This is her first season out of novice company. Lossiemouth was afforded the luxury of going down the Mares Hurdle route for one season, albeit she was coming out of juvenile company, but I could afford Brighterdaysahead the same, should that be what they decide.

[AaronLad]

Quevega I understand that constitution hill might not have looked overly convincing on his first start for a year in the xmas hurdle, but since then lump sum who was beaten by half a furlong that day has run a very good race in the betfair hurdle the other day, now rated 147, and he's arguably shown that's his rating, his other run this season he chased home Sir gino.

Burdett road I believe is slightly underestimated, and con hill has ultimately beat lossiemouth with ease that day, all things considered, race fitness etc.

He then had a comfortable jog round cheltenham until the final hurdle, but what that infact showed was hes as sharp as ever to react as quickly as he did to get his legs in a position to land without falling.

So while it may appear to some constitution hill isn't at his peak, to me he's not done anything to suggest otherwise and he'll batter them all

[Rooster Booster]

There's a more than 50/50 chance that Lossie goes Mares if BDA declares for the Champion, C Hill & State Man also both stand their ground. IMO, and have bet accordingly.

But I do think this will be mainly Ricci's decision. Mullins and Townend may try and steer him slightly, and open the door much wider. But I think they'll leave it to him.

If Ricci decides to go mares with Mullins blessing then they do deserve some flak. IMO

But it makes more sense in many ways why they would do this. Beaten by 2 of the horses, fell last time, the other mare smashed one of the other horses. She'd be 4th favourite vs odds on favourite in the mares. Would be a brilliant betting heat though, and she probably ought to go 3rd Fav.

But I think most importantly, he's won the race already, more than once, and so have the trainer and jockey.

Danny Mullins will not be happy though
But he did fall off her the last day.


BDA however, IMO would go of close to Fav, at least a good 2nd Fav against a horse that doesn't look at his peak. Where she looks at her peak so far this year.
The rest would be 7 or 8-1 bar.

And none of those men have ever won the Champion hurdle and it might be their best chance of ever doing so.

So, should she decide to go mares then..
That's proper bottling it IMO.
And basically sticking 2 fingers up to the Game.
Which they are completely entitled to do by the way, but they should not be surprised and should understand any criticism.
Pretty sure they can take that.

Gordon will not be happy though, and neither will the jockey
They'll be faking it.

IMO it's obvious what he wants to do and he will be using all his skills to encourage a run in the Champion, unfortunately for him, he has the apples jade experience going against his argument.

Yep(filibuster)

[Quevega]

There's a more than 50/50 chance that Lossie goes Mares if BDA declares for the Champion, C Hill & State Man also both stand their ground. IMO, and have bet accordingly.

But I do think this will be mainly Ricci's decision. Mullins and Townend may try and steer him slightly, and open the door much wider. But I think they'll leave it to him.

If Ricci decides to go mares with Mullins blessing then they do deserve some flak. IMO

But it makes more sense in many ways why they would do this. Beaten by 2 of the horses, fell last time, the other mare smashed one of the other horses. She'd be 4th favourite vs odds on favourite in the mares. Would be a brilliant betting heat though, and she probably ought to go 3rd Fav.

But I think most importantly, he's won the race already, more than once, and so have the trainer and jockey.

Danny Mullins will not be happy though
But he did fall off her the last day.


BDA however, IMO would go of close to Fav, at least a good 2nd Fav against a horse that doesn't look at his peak. Where she looks at her peak so far this year.
The rest would be 7 or 8-1 bar.

And none of those men have ever won the Champion hurdle and it might be their best chance of ever doing so.

So, should she decide to go mares then..
That's proper bottling it IMO.
And basically sticking 2 fingers up to the Game.
Which they are completely entitled to do by the way, but they should not be surprised and should understand any criticism.
Pretty sure they can take that.

Gordon will not be happy though, and neither will the jockey
They'll be faking it.

IMO it's obvious what he wants to do and he will be using all his skills to encourage a run in the Champion, unfortunately for him, he has the apples jade experience going against his argument.