October ‘24 ‘Roger Diamond Geezer Hunter’ Yankee

[JackieMoon33]

Regarding JDR, has an Arkle ever been won by a horse with an RPR as low as his (133)? PTKO was 131 but had a 7lb allowance of course.

In fairness, he'd have likely improved on that rating had he been able to run to his true potential late in the season. I'm not saying he'd have won the Supreme but I'd think he'd have been able to hit something around 140 had he given his true running. That's still low mind.

[Wayward Lad]

You would have thought so, but similar to his Champion Chase chances hinging on the health of El Fab and Energumene his Gold Cup chances may well be determined by the health of Galopin des Champs and the target for Fact to File.
So many good horses in the yard one injury and the pack could get shuffled...

I agree, so many quality highly rated chasers from 2m to 3m that the seasons performances prior to Cheltenham may very well be the ultimate decider on where they go

Whilst jockey considerations may come into it, the only caveat I’d add is that with many in different ownership, then if Gaelic wins the KG you could still see him line up in GC against Galopin and FTF……..great for the spectacle but not great for us ante post punters!

[Istabraq]

Whilst jockey considerations may come into it, the only caveat I’d add is that with many in different ownership, then if Gaelic wins the KG you could still see him line up in GC against Galopin and FTF……..great for the spectacle but not great for us ante post punters!

I was going to say jockeys will play a part here too, Paul will want to ride the best and he has to be worth a good few pound over Paddy so they are effectively handicapping their own horse by running them against each other.
I'd also be wary of Mullins recent comment about the option of taking horses elsewhere (following the Turners and NH Chase changes), adds yet another complication to an already tough puzzle.
Best of luck fellas....

[Quevega]

If he won the King George wouldn’t connections be tempted to go GC? We know the owner would love to win the GC. Or is the ‘have to go right handed’ such a key consideration with him?

It would be unique surely as I can’t remember (not great at the best of times!) which horses have won the KC and gone on to run, let alone win the CC in the same season. Although, wouldn’t it normally be after winning/running in the CC that they look to move out in distance and the KC being a good opportunity the year after, not the other way around and within two and half months?

Even the one of, if not the greatest, chaser of my time, Kauto, I’m pretty sure never went back to CC after winning the KG, although he may have won the Tingle Creek afterwards….. but he was a horse of a lifetime blessed with speed and stamina.

The money for the KG has been across the board for Gaelic and he’s even down to 5’s in a couple of places, which is insane in my opinion. I’d have thought Willie had a better candidate of trying 3m for the first time with Il Etait Temps in the KG as he maybe isn’t at his best at Cheltenham?

But what do I know, as i’m still having counselling following last years Gaelic Bingo !

Edredon Bleu seemed to flit between the King George and Champion Chase, not sure he ever won both in the same season or ran in both in the same season, but that was probably down to injury/fitness. I just know they never really considered him a stayer.
And he did win both.

[Wayward Lad]

Edredon Bleu seemed to flit between the King George and Champion Chase, not sure he ever won both in the same season or ran in both in the same season, but that was probably down to injury/fitness. I just know they never really considered him a stayer.
And he did win both.

Just checked, spot on Q, good memory

He won the CC at 8 and the KG at 11 !

[Carnage at Taunton]

One Man did it the other way around
Won KG then 2 years later won the QM

[Wayward Lad]

What a horse One Man was……KG at 8 and CC at 10

So maybe Gaelic can win the KG and the CC……..never been done in the same season though!

[Lobos]

Yeah, can be done with the right horse. GW would run out of steam in the GC and would be far more of a liability over that distance with his characteristics. I can see him loving it around Kempton though. jumping out in front, fence to fence. His stamina will hold out over that tight flat course and RH will help him bigtime. He can then revert to the CC. Ricci hasn't won one yet has he ? I'm sure he'd much prefer that over the Ryanair.

[Captain Chris]

In fairness, he'd have likely improved on that rating had he been able to run to his true potential late in the season. I'm not saying he'd have won the Supreme but I'd think he'd have been able to hit something around 140 had he given his true running. That's still low mind.

Struggle to see JDR getting to the level required to be in the mix for the Arkle. With Lump Sum winning the Welsh Champion Hurdle, I'm struggling to see how they'll pass up having a go at a Greatwood/Ladbroke hurdle with JDR. He can mop up some novice chases and a grade 2 after that.

With the Turner's disappearing, all the top Irish horses (Slade Steel, Firefox and possibly Ballyburn) surely end up here and all are better than JDR. Not sure who we have so far, but could be worth getting the top Irish novices covered over the next few months

[Carnage at Taunton]

Struggle to see JDR getting to the level required to be in the mix for the Arkle. With Lump Sum winning the Welsh Champion Hurdle, I'm struggling to see how they'll pass up having a go at a Greatwood/Ladbroke hurdle with JDR. He can mop up some novice chases and a grade 2 after that.

With the Turner's disappearing, all the top Irish horses (Slade Steel, Firefox and possibly Ballyburn) surely end up here and all are better than JDR. Not sure who we have so far, but could be worth getting the top Irish novices covered over the next few months

Well they were certainly better hurdlers, so yes they are currently better than JDR, but chasing is a different game and things could change.
For me with nov chasers, it’s about looking at horses at bigger prices and thinking if they have the potential to improve for a fence and become a challenger as the season progresses.
He could be one imo, and don’t need much outlay to find out.

[Runragged]

Well they were certainly better hurdlers, so yes they are currently better than JDR, but chasing is a different game and things could change.
For me with nov chasers, it’s about looking at horses at bigger prices and thinking if they have the potential to improve for a fence and become a challenger as the season progresses.
He could be one imo, and don’t need much outlay to find out.

I would be surprised if they don't take advantage of a handicap mark of just 135, either over hurdles or even fences. Could well be a Turners candidate depending on how the season goes.

[Lobos]

As carnage says it's possible for these Novices to improve way above their Hurdles mark when going chasing and improve past others who might not take so well to the big ones. In Nicky's stable tour he reckons JDR could be top class and he knows a decent chaser when he sees one.

[JackieMoon33]

As carnage says it's possible for these Novices to improve way above their Hurdles mark when going chasing and improve past others who might not take so well to the big ones. In Nicky's stable tour he reckons JDR could be top class and he knows a decent chaser when he sees one.

But he does like to gush about all of his horses and they don’t all turn out to be top shelf performers.

It’s tough to get a handle on JDR as the stable were off when he had his chance to prove himself. He should improve for chasing but we don’t know what his real position in the novice hurdle pecking order was.

[Lobos]

Can't disagree with any of that JM. Happy to have him on board though at what I feel is a price that will only go one way and may add another of his in the hope of snaring his number 1 Arkle horse. It's a must do for me in view of Nicky's record in the race.

[Fouroverthrutwo]

But he does like to gush about all of his horses and they don’t all turn out to be top shelf performers.

It’s tough to get a handle on JDR as the stable were off when he had his chance to prove himself. He should improve for chasing but we don’t know what his real position in the novice hurdle pecking order was.

I'm really interested in another of Hendo's that goes novice chasing this year - Jango Baie. He looks to be improving with every run and is very lightly raced. If he takes to fences, I reckon he could improve a fair bit. I would hope he would be good enough to be competitive in graded novice chases.