2025 Stayers Hurdle

[AaronLad]

He is a serious EW bet though isn't he? Take the fav out and it's an awful race, truly awful.

Im really not wanting to appear to be sticking up for "the brits", but I am heavily invested in this horse, and it's an opinion of mine, which on multiple occasions in different ways you have completely dismissed.
on this occasion decribing anything else in the race bar the favourite awful. I respect you can have that opinion but why are you so sure?

What has lucky place done to be described as awful Lobos?

Having never been tried at 3 miles, if you was to describe him as unproven over the trip I could understand.
Maybe explaining to me that the races he has won this season havent really been about stamina, I could also understand this, because it is quite accurate, but it doesnt mean he wont stay.

There's good signs that he will stay 3 miles I'd say to you. He has half siblings who raced in France, speed lucky winning over 4.700m(2.92 miles) and ultra lucky 4.400m(2.73miles).
He is also related to screaming colours, winner of the midlands national, through his damsire perrault.

But there has also this season been encouraging signs through his sire pastorius that his progeny have a bit of stamina as well as pace.
July flower ran an extremely good race in a French grade 1 over 3m1f.
Also just yesterday zenta, acheiving pastorius first chase winner, staying a 2m 5f trip in ground described as soft/heavy very well.

Then we have his Cheltenham form, 2 excellent runs here as a 5yold, 2nd to gidleigh park, which imo is top class form, and a fine 4th place in the coral cup, a novice 5 year old against some very experienced rivals. And of course his relkeel hurdle win, giving gowel road 6lbs, who of course has since gone on and franked that form in the Cleeve hurdle.

I do apologise for sounding like a broken record on him, but he's hardly awful is he Lobos?
I understand its a price thing now, but you could at least acknowledge he actually has a chance.

[Lobos]

He has a chance of coming 2nd yes and he's definitely not awful..........the race is awful and can't be described as a Grade 1.

[Many Clouds]

You must be able to see it's a bloody awful race this year, in recent years it wasn't the best but still had decent horses capable of anything on their day with the likes of Flooring Porter, Sire Du Berlais, Paisley Park, Klassical Dream etc

Now they've all gone, without Teahupoo, Home by the lee is favourite on his 4th try at the race and then Lucky Place who's best form is beating a mid 140s horse in Gowell Road.

Without Teahupoo it looks like a handicap when you go down the list of runners. Probably one where a bet in the "without the fave" market is best nearer the time.

[AaronLad]

You must be able to see it's a bloody awful race this year, in recent years it wasn't the best but still had decent horses capable of anything on their day with the likes of Flooring Porter, Sire Du Berlais, Paisley Park, Klassical Dream etc

Now they've all gone, without Teahupoo, Home by the lee is favourite on his 4th try at the race and then Lucky Place who's best form is beating a mid 140s horse in Gowell Road.

Without Teahupoo it looks like a handicap when you go down the list of runners. Probably one where a bet in the "without the fave" market is best nearer the time.

It's never in my lifetime been a truly deep race full of superstars though, even the greatest staying hurdlers of all time inglis drever and big bucks, were tried at either shorter and wasn't good enough in inglis drevers case or in big bucks case tried as a chaser and wasn't any good at it. But even in their dominant times you could hardly describe their wins as deep.

The horses you mention above never truly faced each other when they were all at their peak, Paisley Park and sire du berlais both 9 by the time flooring porter was winning his first stayers crown. and 3 of those came through handicaps bar klassical dream who only ever raced in graded races bar novice hurdle and novice chase.

So while I can accept its not a deep race I'd say it never has been.

[Wayward Lad]

Maybe the race will become a handicap in the near future, like the Turners Chase, Nat Hunt Chase and Cross Country this year ?

Would probably become more competitive, but the edge would be with the bookmakers methinks and how many handicaps is good for a festival of NH racing?

[HoldenTheReins]

Maybe the race will become a handicap in the near future, like the Turners Chase, Nat Hunt Chase and Cross Country this year ?

Would probably become more competitive, but the edge would be with the bookmakers methinks and how many handicaps is good for a festival of NH racing?

We don't need more handicaps.....

[Many Clouds]

It's never in my lifetime been a truly deep race full of superstars though, even the greatest staying hurdlers of all time inglis drever and big bucks, were tried at either shorter and wasn't good enough in inglis drevers case or in big bucks case tried as a chaser and wasn't any good at it. But even in their dominant times you could hardly describe their wins as deep.

The horses you mention above never truly faced each other when they were all at their peak, Paisley Park and sire du berlais both 9 by the time flooring porter was winning his first stayers crown. and 3 of those came through handicaps bar klassical dream who only ever raced in graded races bar novice hurdle and novice chase.

So while I can accept its not a deep race I'd say it never has been.

Yeh I agree, it isn't a race that I particularly look forward to for the same reasons. Especially as more and more emphasis seems to be on going chasing so it ends up with a few poor chasers switching back rather than this being their target from the outset.

But with them "bigger names" shall we say in recent years it felt like a bit more open and maybe nostalgic with the older horses coming back year on year for another crack, but you're right it wasn't rammed full of quality.

But this year does look particularly poor, maybe also because the fave has only raced once this season and was beaten so that maybe takes the gloss of Teahupoo a bit, I'm not sure.

There's always the chance that we might see a new crop of Stayers lineup that are gonna start their journey coming back year after year, but I suppose we wont know that until later down the line and we only have the evidence of what they've done so far to go on.

[punterorplonker]

Please tell me how mullins can be running mystical power in this. Run in only 2m races.

"He could run in the Red Mills Hurdle next week and will likely go for the Stayers' Hurdle if he travels over to Cheltenham."

[Rooster Booster]

Please tell me how mullins can be running mystical power in this. Run in only 2m races.

"He could run in the Red Mills Hurdle next week and will likely go for the Stayers' Hurdle if he travels over to Cheltenham."

Because they are hoping he will be less shit running against slower horses and they’ve got little to lose.

[Lobos]

Please tell me how mullins can be running mystical power in this. Run in only 2m races.

"He could run in the Red Mills Hurdle next week and will likely go for the Stayers' Hurdle if he travels over to Cheltenham."

Because he's a master trainer

[AaronLad]

There's always the chance that we might see a new crop of Stayers lineup that are gonna start their journey coming back year after year, but I suppose we wont know that until later down the line and we only have the evidence of what they've done so far to go on.

I think this is the point I'm trying to make, and probably doing a poor job of it.

[Quevega]

Interesting way of looking at the stayers for you all to think about.

If you put Teahupoo to one side as the stand out horse.

If the race was a handicap and they were all running off the same mark/weight ?
Who would go off favourite (or 2nd Fav to Teahupoo), based on all we know ?

[AaronLad]

Interesting way of looking at the stayers for you all to think about.

If you put Teahupoo to one side as the stand out horse.

If the race was a handicap and they were all running off the same mark/weight ?
Who would go off favourite (or 2nd Fav to Teahupoo), based on all we know ?

Lucky place and the wallpark joint favs
Couldn't see a 10yo homebythelee giving 7lbs minimum to these 2
which is pretty obvious when I think lucky place wins off levels

[Quevega]

Lucky place and the wallpark joint favs
Couldn't see a 10yo homebythelee giving 7lbs minimum to these 2

Both possible but wrong IMO.
They're all running off the same mark.

[AaronLad]

Both possible but wrong IMO.
They're all running off the same mark.

Which is why home by the lee is currently 2nd fav.
but I added a bit to my original reply
and there's no point in asking to look at it a certain way then saying wrong because that's not the reality, bit harsh