2025 Champion Chase

[Carnage at Taunton]

If you were a backer of him you'd be happy with that, but if you wanted to oppose him, you'd be happy with that too.

I’m confused

[riccirich]

I’m confused

I think he basically means it was good but nothing that can't be beaten, which I'd agree with, so whichever side of the fence your on your probably happy enough.

6l beating of energumene is a very good run. But it was on good/good to soft, when energumene is at his best on soft/heavy. And he's also 11 so debatable how good he still is. So if it was bad ground in March, the gap could be narrowed, as energumene MIGHT be happier on it than jonbon, while also having a better course record. And mullins may still have a better candidate than energumene at home. So at the moment I think jonbon clearly sets the standard, but not an unachievable one by any means.

[ComplyOrDie]

I think he basically means it was good but nothing that can't be beaten, which I'd agree with, so whichever side of the fence your on your probably happy enough.

6l beating of energumene is a very good run. But it was on good/good to soft, when energumene is at his best on soft/heavy. And he's also 11 so debatable how good he still is. So if it was bad ground in March, the gap could be narrowed, as energumene MIGHT be happier on it than jonbon, while also having a better course record. And mullins may still have a better candidate than energumene at home. So at the moment I think jonbon clearly sets the standard, but not an unachievable one by any means.

This is how I read it too.

Can understand the thinking behind it too.

[archie]

El Fabiolo 6/1 nrnb isn't the worst price.

[Carnage at Taunton]

I think he basically means it was good but nothing that can't be beaten, which I'd agree with, so whichever side of the fence your on your probably happy enough.

6l beating of energumene is a very good run. But it was on good/good to soft, when energumene is at his best on soft/heavy. And he's also 11 so debatable how good he still is. So if it was bad ground in March, the gap could be narrowed, as energumene MIGHT be happier on it than jonbon, while also having a better course record. And mullins may still have a better candidate than energumene at home. So at the moment I think jonbon clearly sets the standard, but not an unachievable one by any means.

Well ok
Myself I would find it hard to be encouraged in beating Jonbon on that display.
He would imo have beaten any of his challengers today.

[riccirich]

Well ok
Myself I would find it hard to be encouraged in beating Jonbon on that display.
He would imo have beaten any of his challengers today.

I wouldn't really disagree that he'd have beaten any of them today. There was nothing to really crab about him.

it's just that if ground conditions are different in March, on a course that he hasnt fully proven himself on yet, then i think something could get to him, as i dont think he's miles clear.
But all his challengers have question marks - IF the ground is heavy for energumene and gaelic, IF el fabiolo jumps better, IF il est francais is fine at 2m, IF marine nationale can keep improving. Jonbon himself is fairly solid in comparison, but I think at least one of those challengers will probably push him close on the day and maybe beat him, depending on conditions etc.

[opatcho]

I thought energumene was brilliant today
Turned up at ascot today, thinking they may and could have withdrawn energumene based on the going, thought he’d do well to finish close and finish in 2nd. He went above my expectations today, so much so, I would back energumene heavily if the going in march was soft to heavy, heavy. Have to remember, Jonbon had his conditions today. Jonbon seems to run a few lbs below his best at Cheltenham, whilst energumene has proven form and comes into his own in conditions that suit him

I might chip away at the 10/1’s now whilst keeping a eye on the weather forecast leading into the fez

[Carnage at Taunton]

I wouldn't really disagree that he'd have beaten any of them today. There was nothing to really crab about him.

it's just that if ground conditions are different in March, on a course that he hasnt fully proven himself on yet, then i think something could get to him, as i dont think he's miles clear.
But all his challengers have question marks - IF the ground is heavy for energumene and gaelic, IF el fabiolo jumps better, IF il est francais is fine at 2m, IF marine nationale can keep improving. Jonbon himself is fairly solid in comparison, but I think at least one of those challengers will probably push him close on the day and maybe beat him, depending on conditions etc.

Yeah, I guess that’s stuff we could have thought before today though imo.
As you say could not fault Jonbon at all today, he was very good.

[Carnage at Taunton]

I thought energumene was brilliant today
Turned up at ascot today, thinking they may and could have withdrawn energumene based on the going, thought he’d do well to finish close and finish in 2nd. He went above my expectations today, so much so, I would back energumene heavily if the going in march was soft to heavy, heavy. Have to remember, Jonbon had his conditions today. Jonbon seems to run a few lbs below his best at Cheltenham, whilst energumene has proven form and comes into his own in conditions that suit him

I might chip away at the 10/1’s now whilst keeping a eye on the weather forecast leading into the fez

You thought that was close?

Get the heavy ground thoughts though.

[Kautostar]

Heavy ground would also suit energumene’s younger stablemate too

[Carnage at Taunton]

I do understand the heavy ground points, but may be best not to get too hung up on it when thinking about a wager?
Jonbon won a Tingle Creek on heavy and also won over 2and a half on soft.
He’s versatile when it comes to ground.
The good ones often are.

[riccirich]

I do understand the heavy ground points, but may be best not to get too hung up on it when thinking about a wager?
Jonbon won a Tingle Creek on heavy and also won over 2and a half on soft.
He’s versatile when it comes to ground.
The good ones often are.

Yeah he has no problem with soft/heavy himself, my point with energumene would just have been that I think he'll actually improve for that ground, whereas I'm not sure that would be the case for jonbon, he just looks versatile. So that would be reason to think that energumene might narrow the gap on that ground, as if that ground was important to him when he was younger then it would be even more so now at 11. I'd definitely be backing each way at 10/1 if I knew it was going to be soft, but obviously I can't know that now and that's why he is 10/1.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Yeah he has no problem with soft/heavy himself, my point with energumene would just have been that I think he'll actually improve for that ground, whereas I'm not sure that would be the case for jonbon, he just looks versatile. So that would be reason to think that energumene might narrow the gap on that ground, as if that ground was important to him when he was younger then it would be even more so now at 11. I'd definitely be backing each way at 10/1 if I knew it was going to be soft, but obviously I can't know that now and that's why he is 10/1.

Fair enough,
I hope he’s given the chance to defend his title from two years ago, he deserves to imo and absolutely on real soft ground I agree he’s still a player

[FinalFurlong91]

I'd imagine they will be quietly very happy with energumenes run

Remember he got beat the same distance by editeur du gite in the race before winning his second champion chase

No reason at all for him not to try and win a 3rd even at 11

They will be hopeful that he gets a lot closer to jonbon at Cheltenham

It's very unlikely he will run to 175+ again

But maybe 170 will be enough

He's raced 17 times under rules and never finished out of the first 3. Very tempted to take the 10/1 e/w. My worry would be Paul riding Gaelic and them putting Patrick on his back. You'd be hoping danny gets the ride.

When mullins 2nd strings win big races it's danny on board or mark walsh on a JP horse. Not the human anchor.

[Runragged]

No point producing your best in January when the goal is in March. Jonbon did it well and comfortably with another performance that looks to be mid to low 170s RPR. It's a step up on first run for Energumene as well, though I don't believe he needs soft/heavy ground, it's just he handles it better than other horses. His 2nd best RPR came on good to yielding when destroying Chacun Pour Soi and this was the first time in 7 runs that he had been beaten under rules on ground faster than soft. Edwardstone is back out to 100/1, beat just over 10 lengths, but only 4 behind Energumene. Still think it is a bonkers e/w price considering the race should cut up and if we do get a strong pace to the race then he will be staying on at the finish to pick up the pieces.