2025 Champion Chase

[EnvoiAlien]

Putting a 3 miler over 2m on a undulating course,with that horse being known to burst, recipe for disaster imo.

[ComplyOrDie]

Putting a 3 miler over 2m on a undulating course,with that horse being known to burst, recipe for disaster imo.

I agree. Can't get on board the 2m shout at all.

[EnvoiAlien]

I'm a big fan of his but find it a strange shout,I suspect by the water jump he would start getting left behind by proper 2 milers.

[Quevega]

I'm a big fan of his but find it a strange shout,I suspect by the water jump he would start getting left behind by proper 2 milers.

I'd disagree envoi.
The main reason is that there are no proper 2 milers in the race anyhow.
They would all be better over further. So his cruising speed would be absolutely fine IMO.
The doubt I'd have is how well he could jump at Cheltenham compared to Kempton where he has shown how he gets into a really good rhythm.

[Quevega]

It seems like if they are going for the racing post handicap, which off that mark (166?) seems even more stupid IMO. The CC would be second choice anyway and they'll probably see how each race shapes up and then decide to skip the festival altogether

[Lobos]

Straight to Cheltenham for the CC would be ideal. Keep him mean and fresh. No need to run him before at all. They'll see sense.

[Carnage at Taunton]

I'd disagree envoi.
The main reason is that there are no proper 2 milers in the race anyhow.
They would all be better over further. So his cruising speed would be absolutely fine IMO.
The doubt I'd have is how well he could jump at Cheltenham compared to Kempton where he has shown how he gets into a really good rhythm.

No proper 2 milers?
Really!!??
Two time CC winner against a horse that’s one countless grade 1 2 m chases??

[Lobos]

No proper 2 milers?
Really!!??
Two time CC winner against a horse that’s one countless grade 1 2 m chases??

Even Q's taken to the Rum...

[Benjy23]

Agree with Quevega, against this opposition the trip would be no problem for IEF.

[Quevega]

No proper 2 milers?
Really!!??
Two time CC winner against a horse that’s one countless grade 1 2 m chases??

Do you think IEF at 7 years old can run as fast as the 9yr old Jonbon and the 11 yr old energumene ? -
Both of whom have been talked about as likely better over further by their trainers but circumstances and a weak division have left them at 2 miles.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Agree with Quevega, against this opposition the trip would be no problem for IEF.

Well he’s had 1 chase over 2m which he won easily enough in France and was then stepped up to distances he’s now been used to running in last couple of years.
I think he would be a fascinating runner wherever he turns up cos of his style of running, but no idea how he would fare against proper 2 milers!!

[Carnage at Taunton]

Do you think IEF at 7 years old can run as fast as the 9yr old Jonbon and the 11 yr old energumene ? -
Both of whom have been talked about as likely better over further by their trainers but circumstances and a weak division have left them at 2 miles.

Don’t know until I see it.
No evidence at all that says he’s better at 2 miles than them.
Only evidence I can see is that he was stepped up in trip from 2m to 2m 6.
Suggesting to me it was felt he needed further to have the most success.

[Quevega]

Don’t know until I see it.
No evidence at all that says he’s better at 2 miles than them.
Only evidence I can see is that he was stepped up in trip from 2m to 2m 6.
Suggesting to me it was felt he needed further to have the most success.

Il est Francais average speed at kempton (2 years running) was higher than 7/8 of Jonbons last 8 starts.

Different courses and ground of course, but crucially one horses speed is averaged over 3 miles not 2.

Energumene has never, ever ever - averaged a higher speed than Il Est Francais's 2 runs at Kempton.

Is that evidence enough for you ?

Much classier horse in terms of pure ability IMO - but with a squiggle for sure.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Il est Francais average speed at kempton (2 years running) was higher than 7/8 of Jonbons last 8 starts.

Different courses and ground of course, but crucially one horses speed is averaged over 3 miles not 2.

Energumene has never, ever ever - averaged a higher speed than Il Est Francais's 2 runs at Kempton.

Is that evidence enough for you ?

Much classier horse in terms of pure ability IMO - but with a squiggle for sure.

No.
Need to see him in a 2m race.
Horses usually are ridden to win not break speed records.

[Quevega]

No.
Need to see him in a 2m race.
Horses usually are ridden to win not break speed records.

Do you only ever bet on horses returning to win the same race at the same course the following year ?

Fact is - he's got the pace. No doubt.
Probably never know anyway.