2025 Champion Hurdle

[Quevega]

That’s 3 races now for BDA and in relatively quick succession, 1 November, 23 November and 29 December, with the last race having quite the run to put it mildly yesterday. The DRF is only 4 weeks this weekend. Cheltenham will be just 5 weeks afterwards.

It will be the training feat of the decade to get her tuned and winning for all these. Guess they’ll have to see how she comes out of Sunday’s exertions but I wonder if the DRF may come too soon?

If they decide to give her a break then it really does help the prospect of a fantastic champion hurdle.
As it'd leave the way clear for Lossiemouth to state her case vs State man at Dublin.

Meaning if she wins we at least get a rematch with Con Hill - and the O'learys and Elliott will really have to suck it up if they opt for the mares in that scenario.
If Lossie loses to State Man then the O'learys would take that as encouragement for the big one.

[Yosser]

Kevin Blake on Brighterdaysahead

"We are just going to have to deal with this and cope with this, because this is going to happen and people are going to be upset but people will just have to deal with it because this is the programme that is set and they don't want to change it. Brighterdaysahead is an absolute certainty to run in the Mares Hurdle and there is no doubt in my mind. Lossiemouth is an absolute certainty to run in the Champion Hurdle. Brighterdaysahead is going to go off about 2/7f in the Mares Hurdle and she is going to win blowing kisses at the crowd and that's just going to happen so deal with it"

[Craigy14]

My one concern with that style of racing yesterday, for all it was excellently planned and executed, is how much of a long term impact could this have on BDA putting so much into her races. They see her chasing long term, possibly even Gold Cup (given how highly Gordon speaks of her) and surely even breeding afterwards. I just worry if they repeat that another couple of times this season what will her long term future look like?

How many races do we see at Cheltenham where they go a break neck end to end gallop like that, there are very few from memory. There are also very few horses that can cope with that sort of pace imo.

I suppose the closest analogy would be running 200m (possibly 400m) at 100m pace, that’s how it seemed to me viewing it. We obviously call it championship pace but we see very few races ran like that it becomes a spectacle especially with the end result she gave yesterday.

I hope she’s able to repeat it as it will make for some race in March if she comes here but it would have to be a slight concern long term.

[Rooster Booster]

Kevin Blake on Brighterdaysahead

"We are just going to have to deal with this and cope with this, because this is going to happen and people are going to be upset but people will just have to deal with it because this is the programme that is set and they don't want to change it. Brighterdaysahead is an absolute certainty to run in the Mares Hurdle and there is no doubt in my mind. Lossiemouth is an absolute certainty to run in the Champion Hurdle. Brighterdaysahead is going to go off about 2/7f in the Mares Hurdle and she is going to win blowing kisses at the crowd and that's just going to happen so deal with it"

Perhaps he should join the forum ….we could wrap up all 27 races in an hour then figure out what we do for the remaining 364 days and 23 hours.

[Zachx02]

Personally hope if BDA goes the mares hurdle she gets stuffed, everyone in racing moans about declining betting revenue and declining attendances, yet we have a potential superstar and they're refusing to go against the other superstar in constitution hill, it's pathetic

[Carnage at Taunton]

As was being said yesterday in here…….move the bloody Mares Hurdle to a different meeting ie Trials Day
BDA goes there after yesterday is the final straw as far as I’m concerned.

[DenmanSacre]

I see why people hate the Mares Hurdle but it's done exactly what it was supposed to do.

It was introduced, with the extended Mares programme, to get more Mares in training and act as the championship for them. Would moving it to Trials day help? I'm not too sure. You'd probably get the Irish complaining they need to decide between that and the DRF and what do you replace it with at Cheltenham - a Mares only handicap over the same distance or possibly 3m? That adds absolutely nothing to the festival.

The problem is that you can get years where there is an outstanding mare well above the others - Quevega, Annie Power (even though she lost) and Lossiemouth come to mind. But we've had some decent races in it in recent years - Honeysuckle vs BDD (Honeysuckle then went the Champions), Apples Jade vs VVM vs Limini, BDD vs AJ etc. We've had 10/1, 11/1 and 18/1 winners in the last 6 years and only 2 odds on winners in the last 10 years.

It would be a shame if BDA and Lossiemouth didn't go to the Champion Hurdle, but if they both came here, it would still be a good race. Without them, it would be a more open betting race admittedly and having just one of them turn up would be worse.

Do we make it a grade 2, or heavier penalties for grade 1 winners, or exclude those who have won non-novice grade 1s in the same season and previous season.

We don't get the hate on the flat for the 1000 Guineas, Oaks and the other filly/mare only races, despite the Fillies and Mares being far more than capable to beat the colts each year.

[DenmanSacre]

This argument also kind of masks the issue with the 2m hurdle division. Many novices go over fences and too many flat horses sold abroad who could make up into good hurdlers. Prize money is obviously an issue and something the industry should be looking at in how you incentivise horses staying in GB/IRE and going hurdling over being sold abroad. Doubt there is an answer when average horses can be sold for hundreds of thousands because the prize money in Aus and the Far East are far higher than here.

[Rooster Booster]

I see why people hate the Mares Hurdle but it's done exactly what it was supposed to do.

It was introduced, with the extended Mares programme, to get more Mares in training and act as the championship for them. Would moving it to Trials day help? I'm not too sure. You'd probably get the Irish complaining they need to decide between that and the DRF and what do you replace it with at Cheltenham - a Mares only handicap over the same distance or possibly 3m? That adds absolutely nothing to the festival.

The problem is that you can get years where there is an outstanding mare well above the others - Quevega, Annie Power (even though she lost) and Lossiemouth come to mind. But we've had some decent races in it in recent years - Honeysuckle vs BDD (Honeysuckle then went the Champions), Apples Jade vs VVM vs Limini, BDD vs AJ etc. We've had 10/1, 11/1 and 18/1 winners in the last 6 years and only 2 odds on winners in the last 10 years.

It would be a shame if BDA and Lossiemouth didn't go to the Champion Hurdle, but if they both came here, it would still be a good race. Without them, it would be a more open betting race admittedly and having just one of them turn up would be worse.

Do we make it a grade 2, or heavier penalties for grade 1 winners, or exclude those who have won non-novice grade 1s in the same season and previous season.

We don't get the hate on the flat for the 1000 Guineas, Oaks and the other filly/mare only races, despite the Fillies and Mares being far more than capable to beat the colts each year.

Of course it should stay but just run it in January make it the centrepiece of a card and keep the prize money etc and make a huge deal of and market the hell out of it. Then let the winner take her chance in the CH in March and have a potential battle of the sexes . It’s a very easy problem to solve imo.

[Quevega]

I see why people hate the Mares Hurdle but it's done exactly what it was supposed to do.

It was introduced, with the extended Mares programme, to get more Mares in training and act as the championship for them. Would moving it to Trials day help? I'm not too sure. You'd probably get the Irish complaining they need to decide between that and the DRF and what do you replace it with at Cheltenham - a Mares only handicap over the same distance or possibly 3m? That adds absolutely nothing to the festival.

The problem is that you can get years where there is an outstanding mare well above the others - Quevega, Annie Power (even though she lost) and Lossiemouth come to mind. But we've had some decent races in it in recent years - Honeysuckle vs BDD (Honeysuckle then went the Champions), Apples Jade vs VVM vs Limini, BDD vs AJ etc. We've had 10/1, 11/1 and 18/1 winners in the last 6 years and only 2 odds on winners in the last 10 years.

It would be a shame if BDA and Lossiemouth didn't go to the Champion Hurdle, but if they both came here, it would still be a good race. Without them, it would be a more open betting race admittedly and having just one of them turn up would be worse.

Do we make it a grade 2, or heavier penalties for grade 1 winners, or exclude those who have won non-novice grade 1s in the same season and previous season.

We don't get the hate on the flat for the 1000 Guineas, Oaks and the other filly/mare only races, despite the Fillies and Mares being far more than capable to beat the colts each year.

I fucking hate the comparison between the Oaks and Derby, and Guineas. It's ill thought out. Fucking Lynch trots it out regularly and it's inane.

Those races have not really suffered with small field uncompetitive races, fans do not cry out for clashes like they do in NH - and they are also early in the season so racing fans therefore know the best fillys and colts will clash later in the year.

And the Irish can complain all they like.
They didn't give a fuck when they reshaped the Dublin racing festival to clash with trials day.

The owners don't need convincing about having mares in training anymore and if they want their race they can keep it, just not at the expense of the big clashes the racing public deserves.

[Rooster Booster]

I fucking hate the comparison between the Oaks and Derby, and Guineas. It's ill thought out. Fucking Lynch trots it out regularly and it's inane.

Those races have not really suffered with small field uncompetitive races, fans do not cry out for clashes like they do in NH - and they are also early in the season so racing fans therefore know the best fillys and colts will clash later in the year.

And the Irish can complain all they like.
They didn't give a fuck when they reshaped the Dublin racing festival to clash with trials day.

The owners don't need convincing about having mares in training anymore and if they want their race they can keep it, just not at the expense of the big clashes the racing public deserves.

Like he said

[Ice]

Of course it should stay but just run it in January make it the centrepiece of a card and keep the prize money etc and make a huge deal of and market the hell out of it. Then let the winner take her chance in the CH in March and have a potential battle of the sexes . It’s a very easy problem to solve imo.

Couldn't argue with this, top mares battle it out in January then they can face the boys in march.

[Rooster Booster]

Couldn't argue with this, top mares battle it out in January then they can face the boys in march.

Yep …if these wankers had any entrepreneurial awareness the sport might start to thrive. It’s run by braindead unimaginative thick twats. I may have gone a bit too far there

[Lobos]

Kevin Blake on Brighterdaysahead

"We are just going to have to deal with this and cope with this, because this is going to happen and people are going to be upset but people will just have to deal with it because this is the programme that is set and they don't want to change it. Brighterdaysahead is an absolute certainty to run in the Mares Hurdle and there is no doubt in my mind. Lossiemouth is an absolute certainty to run in the Champion Hurdle. Brighterdaysahead is going to go off about 2/7f in the Mares Hurdle and she is going to win blowing kisses at the crowd and that's just going to happen so deal with it"

He's been on Darlos Rum

[Exar Essay]

Yep …if these wankers had any entrepreneurial awareness the sport might start to thrive. It’s run by braindead unimaginative thick twats. I may have gone a bit too far there

It’s not an easy problem to solve at all. As others have alluded to, there is no guarantee that running it in January would attract the same field, or be a stepping stone to the Champion Hurdle.

One can say “screw the Irish” or whatever, but that’s looking at things from the wrong perspective. If they decide their horses are better served running at the DRF, then the Mares hurdle is devalued. And if that happens, the prize money will dwindle. The race needs the Irish more than the Irish need the race (if it were in January).

There are drawbacks to the Mares Hurdle, but it also brings huge racing benefits. One of the most emotional races I’ve seen, ever, was Honeysuckle’s final race. She’d not have placed in the Champion Hurdle.

It’s all well and good decrying the race this year, but in others, where there isn’t a 160 rated mare, it introduces a decent grade one to the festival. I’d rather that than another handicap.

And I’ve not touched on the broodmare point.

I do not know what the answer is, but I do think it’s a difficult conundrum to solve and very harsh to subsequently label those in charge braindead because of it.