2025 Novice Hurdlers

[Cheltenham Novice Chase]

Jackie will be hammering the 'like' button there i think it goes both ways, finding the happy medium in between the two. Speed and Stamina. I will respectfully disagree with other arguments but the debate is good anyway

I would add that there is speed, stamina but also pace. By pace, I mean the ability to run at a high speed for a prolonged period of time. When people say speed, I think they often mean acceleration which is different.

[Runragged]

The bit highlighted is the same of any race though whether it be 5f or 4m. All races should end in a sprint of some description but an argument can be made whether the fastest horse or the one with most stamina prevails. My mate has a share in Curious Rover and he is electric for 4 of his 5f races but gets outstayed if he doesn't dictate the pace. He is a 100mph from the front type. Dysart Dynamo is similar over 2m, probably the fastest horse in most of his races and tries to go from the front but gets outstayed 99 times out of 100. Having a high cruising speed is different to having a fast kick.

Ok, put it this way, if you put a 5f horse up against a 4m horse in a 4m race and they trot round for the first 3 1/2m, who would win? Extreme example which would never happen but shows that what happens all the way through a race is relevant. The Turners is invariably run at a steady gallop to begin which gives the opportunity for the fastest horse to win as it isn't a sufficient stamina test for that to be a factor. The Supreme starts off fast, slows down up the hill but then the pace increases all the way through the race till they meet the hill at the finish. Look at last years two races as an example. Here are the figures for the last 2 furlongs:

Supreme: 14.60 (2nd last) 15.75 (Last)
Turners: 14.34 (2nd last) 15.64 (Last)

Also worth remembering that Ballyburn was eased down in the final furlong as he was under no pressure whereas Slade Steel was pushed all the way by Mystical Power to the line. I don't think it is unfair to suggest that Slade Steel outstayed Mythical Power, whereas Ballyburn was too quick for his opponents.

As to the two examples you give, yes, there is an element of stamina involved though it has to be taken in context. If there was 4f races then you wouldn't say your mates horse lacked stamina, just the same as if there was a 1m 6f race for Dysart. The finish to a race is dictated by what has happened already in a race. Like any animal, there is a point where you can't run any faster and is why sectionals can prove invaluable as it shows how the early part of the race went, though in most cases we can judge in part by what we see. Anyway, i'm digressing into all races. I will happily take a horse with proven good 2m form over your proven stayer at the trip when it comes to the Turners!

[Quevega]

Ok, put it this way, if you put a 5f horse up against a 4m horse in a 4m race and they trot round for the first 3 1/2m, who would win? Extreme example which would never happen but shows that what happens all the way through a race is relevant. The Turners is invariably run at a steady gallop to begin which gives the opportunity for the fastest horse to win as it isn't a sufficient stamina test for that to be a factor. The Supreme starts off fast, slows down up the hill but then the pace increases all the way through the race till they meet the hill at the finish. Look at last years two races as an example. Here are the figures for the last 2 furlongs:

Supreme: 14.60 (2nd last) 15.75 (Last)
Turners: 14.34 (2nd last) 15.64 (Last)

Also worth remembering that Ballyburn was eased down in the final furlong as he was under no pressure whereas Slade Steel was pushed all the way by Mystical Power to the line. I don't think it is unfair to suggest that Slade Steel outstayed Mythical Power, whereas Ballyburn was too quick for his opponents.

As to the two examples you give, yes, there is an element of stamina involved though it has to be taken in context. If there was 4f races then you wouldn't say your mates horse lacked stamina, just the same as if there was a 1m 6f race for Dysart. The finish to a race is dictated by what has happened already in a race. Like any animal, there is a point where you can't run any faster and is why sectionals can prove invaluable as it shows how the early part of the race went, though in most cases we can judge in part by what we see. Anyway, i'm digressing into all races. I will happily take a horse with proven good 2m form over your proven stayer at the trip when it comes to the Turners!

been covered on here many times over the years and your effort is very well put.
Some people though will stick to their opinions despite of the evidence put before them.

[JackieMoon33]

Jackie will be hammering the 'like' button there i think it goes both ways, finding the happy medium in between the two. Speed and Stamina. I will respectfully disagree with other arguments but the debate is good anyway

I’m a broken record on the subject, mainly because it’s pretty objective rather than my opinion. That’s why I always say to go through the roll of honour and ask to pick those horses that would have won a different novice hurdle. It’s fairly conclusive I’d say.

It’s by no means fool proof, but it should be a strong consideration for everyone.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Well no excuse there for RC
Rather disappointing

Has anyone mentioned that winner?

[Quevega]

Well no excuse there for RC
Rather disappointing

Has anyone mentioned that winner?

He's not a novice

[darlojim]

Well no excuse there for RC
Rather disappointing

Has anyone mentioned that winner?

I'm guna say the ground is better than described...

2 ex flat horses winning the graded races.

pinch of salt me thinks.

[Carnage at Taunton]

He's not a novice

Naughty not going my homework

[Runragged]

Does give a boost to the Frankendael form who goes in the 3:10 today...

[Brooksie]

Does give a boost to the Frankendael form who goes in the 3:10 today...

Yep I've just had a bet on him

[Carnage at Taunton]

Romeo out to 20

[Stormez]

Surprised they didn’t cut Salvador Mundi off the back of that, still loads of 10’s about.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Trainer saying Romeo might need 2 and a half

[ComplyOrDie]

Trainer saying Romeo might need 2 and a half

No turn of foot today, not your typical Turners type!

[DenmanSacre]

Trainer saying Romeo might need 2 and a half

After saying he's the fastest horse in the yard and a true 2 miler. Gordon's upset he's had a few bubbles burst this weekend.