2025 Novice Hurdlers

[Eggs]

….Ballygunner Castle;

”He had to overcome plenty from very early. He got a good bump at the start and I nearly fell off him at the first,” said Townend. “I had to ride him on then and I made him do plenty throughout the race. There were no hiding places and it was messy up the straight, but he still pulled out again. It’s the sign of a good one.

“He will relax better, I had him lit up to take on his hurdles early today because of what happened at the first. He’ll be fine, he’s learning on the job.

“The horse inside me wasn’t quick away from the last either, but still to do all that wrong and pull another bit was a fair performance.”

[Carnage at Taunton]

….Ballygunner Castle;

”He had to overcome plenty from very early. He got a good bump at the start and I nearly fell off him at the first,” said Townend. “I had to ride him on then and I made him do plenty throughout the race. There were no hiding places and it was messy up the straight, but he still pulled out again. It’s the sign of a good one.

“He will relax better, I had him lit up to take on his hurdles early today because of what happened at the first. He’ll be fine, he’s learning on the job.

“The horse inside me wasn’t quick away from the last either, but still to do all that wrong and pull another bit was a fair performance.”

Sounds like right ol learning job today for BC
Taken the 25 for Supreme that’s available
Think that’s ok
Reckon he will come on a lot for today.

[Eggs]

Sounds like right ol learning job today for BC
Taken the 25 for Supreme that’s available
Think that’s ok
Reckon he will come on a lot for today.

…..interesting, I wouldn’t be thinking Supreme myself. Stable tour, Mullins called him a ‘smart staying novice hurdler’ and ahead of today’s race said the 2m would be on the sharp side. I know somebody on here put him up for the AB a month or so ago.

[Carnage at Taunton]

…..interesting, I wouldn’t be thinking Supreme myself. Stable tour, Mullins called him a ‘smart staying novice hurdler’ and ahead of today’s race said the 2m would be on the sharp side. I know somebody on here put him up for the AB a month or so ago.

Yeah, I’ve cashed out already, had a chat with my mate,not my best move ever!! He’s much bigger on exchange and If anything changes he will be easy to back at a later date.
Luckily no
loss on the cash out, so no damage.
Cheers Eggs

[Yosser]

…..interesting, I wouldn’t be thinking Supreme myself. Stable tour, Mullins called him a ‘smart staying novice hurdler’ and ahead of today’s race said the 2m would be on the sharp side. I know somebody on here put him up for the AB a month or so ago.

That was me Eggs, he is a definite stayer. JackieMoon33 will hate it, but he is the archetypal horse for the Turner's or AB. He is a stayer in my eyes. I get what Jackie says when he says speed over distance but some horses are just stuck between the two. In my opinion, you dont need speed to win a turners. You need to be a stayer. If you stay, you have a chance imo in either race. The supreme argument is lost on me, you dont need speed to win a Turner's regardless of what Ruby says. You can do it with a good staying performance.

[JackieMoon33]

That was me Eggs, he is a definite stayer. JackieMoon33 will hate it, but he is the archetypal horse for the Turner's or AB. He is a stayer in my eyes. I get what Jackie says when he says speed over distance but some horses are just stuck between the two. In my opinion, you dont need speed to win a turners. You need to be a stayer. If you stay, you have a chance imo in either race. The supreme argument is lost on me, you dont need speed to win a Turner's regardless of what Ruby says. You can do it with a good staying performance.

It’s maybe not 100% accurate but for me it comes down to this: How many AB winners over the years would have won, or been very competitive, in the Turners the same year? And vice versa, for Turners winners and the AB the same year?

I wouldn’t find many horses I’d be confident would have done so.

If I asked the same questions about the Supreme and Turners, I’d find a lot more horses.

[Carnage at Taunton]

There’s been a fair few stayers that have won or been placed in the Supreme over the years.
Been a few Champion Hurdlers that have won the Turners.

[Birds Nest]

…..interesting, I wouldn’t be thinking Supreme myself. Stable tour, Mullins called him a ‘smart staying novice hurdler’ and ahead of today’s race said the 2m would be on the sharp side. I know somebody on here put him up for the AB a month or so ago.

After ballygunners Tipperary win Patrick Mullins admitted "hat he couldn't get his mount to go fast enough in front and that he did well in the circumstances for a horse whose pedigree is "all three miles".
Didnt readin tommy start off in the same bumper too.

[jrjr]

Blue De Vassy a n/r today in the Royal Bond

[Runragged]

In my opinion, you dont need speed to win a turners. You need to be a stayer. If you stay, you have a chance imo in either race. The supreme argument is lost on me, you dont need speed to win a Turner's regardless of what Ruby says. You can do it with a good staying performance.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt with this statement as a few of the past winners of the race have gone on to perform at 3m over fences. However, as we are talking about hurdlers in their novice season then speed is vital in the race now known as the Turners. There are a few reasons for this. The track and make up of the race. You have two quick hurdles in the Turners just after the start, therefore jockeys take it easy going in to the first couple of jumps, unable to make up that immediate speed. The race then remains relatively steady till the pace increases into a sprint where the fastest horse invariably goes on to win. That is supported by the previous form of many winners of the race in the last few years. Only three of the last 10 winners hadn't won at 2m, Bob Olinger, though he had debuted at 2m finishing a close 2nd to previous years Champion Bumper winner. Willoughby Court, the last UK winner of the race, though he had made all to win over 2 1/2m so wasn't short of pace and was also a rare 15 runner renewal of the race. Then you have Windsor Park though again he wasn't short of speed having previously won over 1m 6f twice on the flat. If we look at the last 5 winners, 4 of those had won a graded race at 2m, with three having taken a grade 1 at 2m through the season.

The Supreme being the first race of the Festival and a fair gallop to the first hurdle tends to be run at a strong pace as they have the time to build up the speed whilst the field sizes tend to be bigger and you get 'keener' horses ensuring the gallop is strong through the race. Therefore you need the pace to stay in contention and relative stamina to maintain that pace through the race and see the trip out up the hill.

Ballygunner Castle could be a Turners type, bred for further but the pace to win at least a maiden over 2m, though I have doubts about the form. 2 1/2 lengths covering the first 5 home, the runner up is a 5 race maiden with his limitations already exposed whilst the 3rd I am questioning the yard form, he should come on for the run. The well backed favourite disappointed and A Dream To Share doesn't seem to be fulfilling the promise he showed initially in bumpers. Will hold off, though can see there should be more to come from him. If he was to take a graded race at 2m then he would be of serious consideration.

[Lobos]

Blue De Vassy a n/r today in the Royal Bond

Well that takes the interest out of the race. Romeo's for the taking now.

[Yosser]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt with this statement as a few of the past winners of the race have gone on to perform at 3m over fences. However, as we are talking about hurdlers in their novice season then speed is vital in the race now known as the Turners. There are a few reasons for this. The track and make up of the race. You have two quick hurdles in the Turners just after the start, therefore jockeys take it easy going in to the first couple of jumps, unable to make up that immediate speed. The race then remains relatively steady till the pace increases into a sprint where the fastest horse invariably goes on to win. That is supported by the previous form of many winners of the race in the last few years. Only three of the last 10 winners hadn't won at 2m, Bob Olinger, though he had debuted at 2m finishing a close 2nd to previous years Champion Bumper winner. Willoughby Court, the last UK winner of the race, though he had made all to win over 2 1/2m so wasn't short of pace and was also a rare 15 runner renewal of the race. Then you have Windsor Park though again he wasn't short of speed having previously won over 1m 6f twice on the flat. If we look at the last 5 winners, 4 of those had won a graded race at 2m, with three having taken a grade 1 at 2m through the season.

The Supreme being the first race of the Festival and a fair gallop to the first hurdle tends to be run at a strong pace as they have the time to build up the speed whilst the field sizes tend to be bigger and you get 'keener' horses ensuring the gallop is strong through the race. Therefore you need the pace to stay in contention and relative stamina to maintain that pace through the race and see the trip out up the hill.

Ballygunner Castle could be a Turners type, bred for further but the pace to win at least a maiden over 2m, though I have doubts about the form. 2 1/2 lengths covering the first 5 home, the runner up is a 5 race maiden with his limitations already exposed whilst the 3rd I am questioning the yard form, he should come on for the run. The well backed favourite disappointed and A Dream To Share doesn't seem to be fulfilling the promise he showed initially in bumpers. Will hold off, though can see there should be more to come from him. If he was to take a graded race at 2m then he would be of serious consideration.

Yeah there are countless arguments for and against Runragged. The bit highlighted is the same of any race though whether it be 5f or 4m. All races should end in a sprint of some description but an argument can be made whether the fastest horse or the one with most stamina prevails. My mate has a share in Curious Rover and he is electric for 4 of his 5f races but gets outstayed if he doesn't dictate the pace. He is a 100mph from the front type. Dysart Dynamo is similar over 2m, probably the fastest horse in most of his races and tries to go from the front but gets outstayed 99 times out of 100. Having a high cruising speed is different to having a fast kick.

[FinalFurlong91]

Ballyburn, Sir Gerhard, Envoi Allen, samcro and yorkhill all won grade 1s over 2 miles before winning

Impaire et passe won a grade 2

Having the speed to win over 2 miles is key to winning the race

A lot of the runners are 3 milers who simply get out speeded by the horse with top 2 mile form.

[Birds Nest]

Imo ballygunner castle is most likely going into the lawlors then potentially albert bartlett, could quite easlily follow readin tommys path. Jody townsend described him as a big galloping type and future chaser, Patricks comments would imo ,suggest further than 2m at the least, his bumper got a boost with aruntothequeen winning a listed mares recently and he was giving her tons of weight too, she even had a claimer on too.beating olympy de cresy over 2m3f in soft to heavy with the pair 30l clear points me imo towards albert bartlett. Just an opinion of course.

[Yosser]

Ballyburn, Sir Gerhard, Envoi Allen, samcro and yorkhill all won grade 1s over 2 miles before winning

Impaire et passe won a grade 2

Having the speed to win over 2 miles is key to winning the race

A lot of the runners are 3 milers who simply get out speeded by the horse with top 2 mile form.

Jackie will be hammering the 'like' button there i think it goes both ways, finding the happy medium in between the two. Speed and Stamina. I will respectfully disagree with other arguments but the debate is good anyway