2024 Novice Chasers

[Kevloaf]

F+

You have to be able to stay to win the RSA.
You're mostly waffling. You get the plus for taking the time to write something.

I couldn't give a shit what other trips they've ran at previously or after, or what they start their chasing career over.
The only thing I'd acknowledge is that you get classier types win the race occasionally, that would be competitive at 2 miles in graded races and others (boat types) that probably wouldn't.

I'd actually not have Stay Away Fay as one of the classier types, and he may be vulnerable (depending on how a race is run) to something that is, I wouldn't argue that. And Nicholls describing him as "too classy" is a surprise to me, although I expect he means that he anticipates that he's a grade one worthy animal if things go to plan.

Having Champ as an exception also seems a little perverse, given his overall record.

The record for winners and placed horses going on to be competitive or well fancied in Gold Cups speaks for itself. You gotta be able to stay. Stayers win the RSA.

You get F- for not encouraging people

51 posts since 2021 and you say it's just mostly waffling.... you've got more than 51 posts waffling about random women from the 80s

No mean comments to anyone with less than 100 comments is a new rule

[Rooster Booster]

Every horse you have given had form prior to the RSA at shorter, whether that be over hurdles, fences or both. Only one of those mentioned also went on to place at further than the Gold Cup trip and so would not be classed as a stayer in my book (A stayer is a horse who stays marathon trips ie 3m 4f+).

Im on this new cereal. It tends to make me fart a lot when I get agitated. Whoever said a fox can’t smell its own hole clearly wasn’t on a diet of oats and nuts.I’ve had to
open the window.

[Quevega]

I think it is probably my definition of a 'stayer' that is causing the confusion. Like I have explained above, a stayer to me is a horse who needs 3 1/2m to be seen at his best which is what I see SAF as in the future. He has class and guts though so it will get him a long way. However, in the BANC then I expect a horse with more tactical speed to beat him and with his profile he is one I am happy not to have on my side come the race (Unless proven otherwise).

The tactical speed comments are over played though, more often than not the phrase is used for beaten horses.

But If you look at the list of BANC winners, the first thing you think of for the vast majority of them is definitely NOT how much tactical speed they had (for most of them, that characteristic would be way down the list of attributes).
The bold and underlining is just for charlie

PS, I have no problem with anyone not fancying Stay Away Fay as a potential winner of the BANC, odds suggest you're more likely to be proved right than wrong. But it was the "stayers don't win BANC's" that needed questioning IMO.

[Runragged]

F+

You have to be able to stay to win the RSA.
You're mostly waffling. You get the plus for taking the time to write something.

I couldn't give a shit what other trips they've ran at previously or after, or what they start their chasing career over.
The only thing I'd acknowledge is that you get classier types win the race occasionally, that would be competitive at 2 miles in graded races and others (boat types) that probably wouldn't.

I'd actually not have Stay Away Fay as one of the classier types, and he may be vulnerable (depending on how a race is run) to something that is, I wouldn't argue that. And Nicholls describing him as "too classy" is a surprise to me, although I expect he means that he anticipates that he's a grade one worthy animal if things go to plan.

Having Champ as an exception also seems a little perverse, given his overall record.

The record for winners and placed horses going on to be competitive or well fancied in Gold Cups speaks for itself. You gotta be able to stay. Stayers win the RSA.

You have to stay what? Just because a horse stays 3m doesn't class it as a stayer in my book. A stayer is a horse that stays marathon trips which to me is 3m 4f+. Blaklion and Presenting Percy are the only horses this century with winning form at beyond the Gold Cup trip in their career. I appreciate there are some that never raced beyond 3m 2 1/2f and a few of the recent ones that have been ill-fated or not had the chance to race at a longer trip. However, certainly for the older horses it can suggest the profile of a winner isn't a horse that looks to need a longer trip in time.

[BookieBasher]

Nicholls confirmed plan is 3m for Stay Away Fay next March as he’s too classy for the NHC.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned

[Quevega]

You get F- for not encouraging people

51 posts since 2021 and you say it's just mostly waffling.... you've got more than 51 posts waffling about random women from the 80s

No mean comments to anyone with less than 100 comments is a new rule

That wasn't mean, mainly factual facts actually.

But in the spirit if things I'll upgrade to E.

And those 51 posts are still in the top 100 posts ever made on here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdxn1qqKxp0

She can definitely stay and is not classy, but I'd back her to the hilt.

[Kevloaf]

You have to stay what? Just because a horse stays 3m doesn't class it as a stayer in my book. A stayer is a horse that stays marathon trips which to me is 3m 4f+. Blaklion and Presenting Percy are the only horses this century with winning form at beyond the Gold Cup trip in their career. I appreciate there are some that never raced beyond 3m 2 1/2f and a few of the recent ones that have been ill-fated or not had the chance to race at a longer trip. However, certainly for the older horses it can suggest the profile of a winner isn't a horse that looks to need a longer trip in time.

Before I get involved properly.... can I ask, have you been in to racing long enough to rememebr watching (and the build up) to Don Poli vs Don Cossack in the 2016 Gold Cup?

[riccirich]

That wasn't mean, mainly factual facts actually.

But in the spirit if things I'll upgrade to E.

And those 51 posts are still in the top 100 posts ever made on here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdxn1qqKxp0

She can definitely stay and is not classy, but I'd back her to the hilt.

Remember seeing one of her videos years ago when I was about 13, recall being genuinely surprised that women in the 80s looked like that.

Was used to seeing women with big stupid perms and fucking pantsuits from that decade, whereas she looked like a girl from the future to me saw her on a tv show recently and she's still showing up well for her age.

[Rooster Booster]

You have to stay what? Just because a horse stays 3m doesn't class it as a stayer in my book. A stayer is a horse that stays marathon trips which to me is 3m 4f+. Blaklion and Presenting Percy are the only horses this century with winning form at beyond the Gold Cup trip in their career. I appreciate there are some that never raced beyond 3m 2 1/2f and a few of the recent ones that have been ill-fated or not had the chance to race at a longer trip. However, certainly for the older horses it can suggest the profile of a winner isn't a horse that looks to need a longer trip in time.

There is clear terminology in greyhound racing that avoids all individual interpretations and is therefore adopted by all as a common language. 2 bend dogs are sprinters, 4 bends is standard, 6 bends are stayers and 8 bends+ are marathon runners..

Whilst there isn’t the same efficiency of language in horse racing I do feel the distinction between stayers and marathon horses has long been around and many of us have that firmly embedded in our brains and so we probably need fair warning if you are going to overlay your own definition .

To Kevs point, and it’s a valid one imo. Keep posting, there is a fair chunk that I agree with just help us keep
up with your thought process a bit more efficiently if you can. Many of us aren’t as mentally agile as we used to be

[Quevega]

You have to stay what? Just because a horse stays 3m doesn't class it as a stayer in my book.

A stayer is a horse that stays marathon trips which to me is 3m 4f+. Blaklion and Presenting Percy are the only horses this century with winning form at beyond the Gold Cup trip in their career. I appreciate there are some that never raced beyond 3m 2 1/2f and a few of the recent ones that have been ill-fated or not had the chance to race at a longer trip. However, certainly for the older horses it can suggest the profile of a winner isn't a horse that looks to need a longer trip in time.

If this is the sticking point then it's no argument.
If this is how you class a stayer then that's fine.

It's probably different to most though including the people who named the 3 mile hurdle Championship race the Stayers hurdle.
I think it's fair to say that 3 miles would be considered stayers territory for most racing fans, and your view is less common.
Like any opinion, you're fully entitled to it, even if it's wrong in most peoples eyes.

By the way, I do see your point (having read all your subsequent comments) to an extent.

[charlie]

The tactical speed comments are over played though, more often than not the phrase is used for beaten horses.

But If you look at the list of BANC winners, the first thing you think of for the vast majority of them is definitely NOT how much tactical speed they had (for most of them, that characteristic would be way down the list of attributes).
The bold and underlining is just for charlie

PS, I have no problem with anyone not fancying Stay Away Fay as a potential winner of the BANC, odds suggest you're more likely to be proved right than wrong. But it was the "stayers don't win BANC's" that needed questioning IMO.

haha you know me too well

I'm surprised SAF has sparked such conversation.

As far as debuts go the jumping was superb and we know it's a race Paul targets with his BANC horses.

Seems ridiculously premature IMO to take from that he's slow or a NHC horse (Paul hates the race and has said BANC)

He's and AB winner in the hands of PN who for all we know was 70% fit today.

Way too many conclusions being drawn off one run IMO

[Quevega]

Remember seeing one of her videos years ago when I was about 13, recall being genuinely surprised that women in the 80s looked like that.

Was used to seeing women with big stupid perms and fucking pantsuits from that decade, whereas she looked like a girl from the future to me saw her on a tv show recently and she's still showing up well for her age.

"a girl from the future" - brilliant !

[Runragged]

Before I get involved properly.... can I ask, have you been in to racing long enough to rememebr watching (and the build up) to Don Poli vs Don Cossack in the 2016 Gold Cup?

I have been into racing and posting on message boards since I was at Uni in 1999, still using the same Username as I did then. However, my memory is shot to bits to the point that I barely remember last years winners let alone the build up to a race 7 1/2 years ago.

[Kevloaf]

haha you know me too well

I'm surprised SAF has sparked such conversation.

As far as debuts go the jumping was superb and we know it's a race Paul targets with his BANC horses.

Seems ridiculously premature IMO to take from that he's slow or a NHC horse (Paul hates the race and has said BANC)

He's and AB winner in the hands of PN who for all we know was 70% fit today.

Way too many conclusions being drawn off one run IMO

70% fit today?

Of all the conclusions being drawn today, that one is the most fun IMO

[Kevloaf]

I have been into racing and posting on message boards since I was at Uni in 1999, still using the same Username as I did then. However, my memory is shot to bits to the point that I barely remember last years winners let alone the build up to a race 7 1/2 years ago.

Haha, fair enough

Well I remember being absolutely adament that Don Poli was the better stayer, and Don Cossack had more class, so over the extra distance Don Poli couldn't be beaten

So I absolutely do see the point you're making ..... as class is important


The thing people have taken issue with is that just beingt a stayers wouldn't win the RSA/BANC ..... because, quite frankly, it will

Also, message me in the avatar thread or message me with a link to a picture you'd like as your profile picture