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….apologies if posted, PP have some Constitution Hill specials;
Win Fighting 5th, Christmas Hurdle & CH 4/5
Unbeaten season (min 3 runs) 5/6
Win next 2 CHs 9/4; Next 3 5-1
Win CH by 10L or more 10/3; by 20L or more 14-1
….apologies if posted, PP have some Constitution Hill specials;
Win Fighting 5th, Christmas Hurdle & CH 4/5 Unbeaten season (min 3 runs) 5/6
Win next 2 CHs 9/4; Next 3 5-1
Win CH by 10L or more 10/3; by 20L or more 14-1
Genuinely believe this is outstanding, I might visit a shop and ask what the max amount is they will take...
I do love it when folk try to take on Sax with stats, it’s akin to trying to beat Constitution Hill over hurdles .
Might need to do an Aidan O'Brien then and get 3 of you to gang up on him.
But I suspect Saxon will, like Ryan on Continuous in the Leger, be positioned well enough and is just able to press the button, and he's not for catching.
Main reasons
* The most recent seasons
* Proves the points I was trying to make (it starts from the Supreme, it doesn’t just end there though)
* Hendo is a specialist Supreme-Arkle expert, and he doesn’t have one of those horses from Supreme 23 (so no need to go back to Altior)
Last 50+ years
3 Supreme Winners won the Arkle the next season in 50+ years
2 were from Nicky Henderson - who has nothing from the Supreme this time round.
Supreme 23 - Marine Nationale
Arkle 24 - ?
Supreme 22 - Constitution Hill
Arkle 23 - El Fabiolo
Supreme 21 - Appreciate It
Arkle 22 - Edwardstone
Supreme 20 - Shishkin (Hendo)
Arkle 21 - Shishkin (Hendo) - the Supreme to Arkle master
Supreme 19 - Klassical Dream
Arkle 20 - PTKO
Supreme 18 - Summerville Boy
Arkle 19 - Duc De Genievres
Supreme 17 - Labaik
Arkle 18 - Footpad
Supreme 16 - Altior (Hendo)
Arkle - 17 - Altior (Hendo) - the Supreme to Arkle master
Supreme 15 - Douvan
Arkle 16 - Douvan
Supreme 14 - Vautour
Arkle - 15 - Un De Sceaux
Supreme 13 - Champagne Fever
Arkle 14 - Western Warhorse
Supreme 12 - Cinders and Ashes
Arkle 13 - Simonsig
Supreme. 11 - Al Ferof
Arkle 12 - Sprinter Sacre (Hendo) 3rd in Supreme - the Supreme to Arkle master
Supreme 02 - Like A Butterfly
Arkle 03 - Azertyuiop
NO Supreme or Arkle 2021
Supreme 2000 - Sausalito Bay
Since the Supreme went to one race, instead of having 2 divisions, around 1970, I don’t think the record books show there is another winner of the Supreme that won the Arkle the next season.
This is all lovely
but it’s probably important to include in the stats when a supreme novice winner goes novice chasing the following season, as many have a crack at the champion.
Try deleting the years supreme novice winners don’t go novice chasing or get injured. It’ll look different. And would have saved around 14 of the examples you typed.
That was the point. It was a little bit of poetic license not including the four golden years. Champagne vautour altior douvan.
In the last 10 years in recent history the supreme winners have either won or would have should have won the following years arkle. Ballymore winners that go novice chasing also have good records.
You can’t win it if you’re going for a champion hurdle or injured.
during the years you’ve covered I think only 7 supreme winners went chasing for the full season the following year.
3 won the arkle - altior shishkin douvan
1 won the arkle on merit champagne fever
1 won the Turners cos a stablemate won the arkle vautour in un de sceaux year.
1 was 3rd at 7/4 SP noland
And Al ferof was 4th in a golden era including sprinter sacre, finians rainbow, menorah and cue card.
might have missed one but the rest stayed over hurdles or got injured.
Last edited by Quevega; 21 September 2023, 10:34 PM.
Particularly with a Nicky Henderson Supreme to Arkle horse.
Without Hendo’s devotion to the Supreme-Arkle with many of his horses (Jonbon went close last season) then you’re right, the Supreme has a pretty poor turnout of winners in the Arkle the following season, for one reason or another.
The Supreme winners, unfortunately regularly fail to turn up in an Arkle, for those that auto-back that Novice Chase route.
Latterly it’s been a complete open house where the Arkle winner comes from
(particularly when Hendo hasn’t had the Supreme winner, the year before)
Not true though is it ?
If the supreme winner goes novice chasing then your going to be very close to winning again the following year.
If they state they are staying hurdling like most do, then you’d obviously be mad to back them for the arkle.
So you’re correct to not auto back especially prior or immediately after the supreme- but Barry kind of said Marine wins the arkle back in February.
IMO - if you’ve proven to be the supreme novice hurdler then you’re in the box seat to be the following season’s novice chaser.
But time will tell - loads of stuff can and will happen.
Marines price now is too short for sure.
So if you’re not on at bigger it makes perfect sense to look elsewhere at the moment.
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