General Chat

[Istabraq]

I'm intrigued by the unregulated options ..... I've exhausted the friends and families account route plus 365 are normally bigger across the board on prices 9 times out of 10

When you have limited options you just have to get used to taking poorer terms, it’s a hard transition to make mentally because we’re all hard wired to seek best value, but these days getting on is the biggest battle for many of us and 10/1 4 places for what you want is better than nothing at 12/1 5 places.
It’s todays gambling world sadly….

[Kevloaf]

When you have limited options you just have to get used to taking poorer terms, it’s a hard transition to make mentally because we’re all hard wired to seek best value, but these days getting on is the biggest battle for many of us and 10/1 4 places for what you want is better than nothing at 12/1 5 places.
It’s todays gambling world sadly….

You just have to have a genuine edge if you're not getting best price.

There are a few on here who can prove they make money with all the resouces available...

There are not many who can prove then can do it in the purest way.



I think if we took away 'roll ups' that people would struggle to make a profit ante post at Cheltenham. I know I would!

[Istabraq]

I think if we took away 'roll ups' that people would struggle to make a profit ante post at Cheltenham. I know I would!

I’m surprised by that, I thought the majority of roll ups failed.
I’m convinced the biggest route to profit is having the ability to cash out, being able to get your money back (or most of it) when a horse is injured and/or disappoints is like being given an almost endless supply of free bets…

[erwinj25]

Cheltenham bes tickets advice help for 2024

I am booking for Cheltenham and need some help picking the best tickets to enjoy the Tuesday and the Friday

Would prefer to experience the festival with different tickets each day. So to that end I have already bought , Wednesday , Thursday tickets and looking for a different experience for the Tuesday and Friday

On the

Wednesday -already bought

Club Admission with Horses for Courses Tour

Thursday - already bought

Club & Guinness Grandstand (Guinness Grandstand

So it leaves me with seeking a different experience on Tuesday , and Friday (preferably pay for somewhere quieter on the friday as it sells out , maybe a restaurant w drinks package,)

I want the view , the atmosphere, not watching it on a bloody screen.

I went 10 years ago once on the Tuesday, I now live in Australia and this will be my last trip back to UK so it's bucket list all 4 days

Appreciate the passion and experience in this forum for any advice from those that may have been there many festivals and done it all.

So just need to sort out

Tuesday and Friday

So far advice been given is re restaurants is all of below are potentially worth doing

The horse and groom restaurant
Panoramic restaurant but ?1500 each pp
Green room
480
Alberta runs restaurant

[Odin]

I’m surprised by that, I thought the majority of roll ups failed.

Mine do, but the probabilities make up for it - because of the odds that I bet at (usually average around 4/1) so if I get more than 20% winning roll ups, I'm still ahead of the game. Obviously can't speak for anyone else in that regard, but if you add that margin to the margin of having a horse turn up for festival races, it ends up being really valuable (for me anyway). Definitely agree that cashout and freebies help massively as well.

[robith]

I would recommend that if you have concerns about your accounts, potentially using a chrome extension like Ghostery or Privacy Badger will block the tracking (Ghostery also allows you to see what trackers they're using) cookies (or a VPN if you're really worried)

[JackieMoon33]

I’m surprised by that, I thought the majority of roll ups failed.
I’m convinced the biggest route to profit is having the ability to cash out, being able to get your money back (or most of it) when a horse is injured and/or disappoints is like being given an almost endless supply of free bets…

I’d have thought the same too. Lose the cash out concession and it’s infinitely harder.

[Benjy23]

To be honest if you're being honest with them and you're making money from roll ups but wouldn't be otherwise with Cheltenham antepost, aren't you better off just not bothering with Cheltenham. As you're only losing a percentage of your winnings from elsewhere by bothering with Cheltenham at all?

If instead of rolling up those selections with Cheltenham antepost bets you'd just put those original selections in their own bets you'd be much better off, no?

What am I missing...

The roll up concept has never been too logical to me. As I may have mentioned before

[Hurricane fly]

To be honest if you're being honest with them and you're making money from roll ups but wouldn't be otherwise with Cheltenham antepost, aren't you better off just not bothering with Cheltenham. As you're only losing a percentage of your winnings from elsewhere by bothering with Cheltenham at all?

There can be a balance depending on how you want to play Cheltenham, it can help build a book and theoretically you could lose every one, however it will have saved you money by covering horses for a smaller outlay.

For example my mares hurdle position this year featured Love Envoi, Brandy Love and Eptante all as roll ups. All 3 are losing bets, so on the face off it I would have been better off just not backing all 3 Cheltenham horses and taking the profit.

However I would have lost far more actual cash trying to get them in the book for returns i wanted vs using roll ups. So in that scenario I've 3 losing bets but I've probably saved myself money on the back of rolling up into them.

I would also note I don't really use big odds for roll ups, I aim for 50pts per horse as a starting point so 1pt on a 10/11 and a 25/1 essentially does the job for me. Am I going to put 1pt on a 10/11 shout by itself? Probably not. Does mean I need a >50% win rate which may be tough but it's called gambling for a reason.

e.g I'm thinking of using Okolie to KO his opponent tonight, 2/5, never going to back that in a single, but if/when it wins it moves me closer to target returns of whatever horse I choose to pair it with. So even if that horse doesn't do the business at the festival I wouldn't consider the lost winnings from the first leg of a double to be lost money.

[Odin]

If instead of rolling up those selections with Cheltenham antepost bets you'd just put those original selections in their own bets you'd be much better off, no?

I do both. I have a daily racing fund where I have bets mostly at weekends and big meetings, and an antepost Cheltenham specific fund, which has only developed in the last 3 years but has worked nicely. Usually I make profit on both. Over the last year I'm still about 30pts down though and that contributed to my Cheltenham results not being as I'd like because when I couldn't find a winner with my daily racing fund, my roll ups also lost for a while. Still made profit at Cheltenham because of on the day bets mostly but I'm in loss for the year overall.

The key thing for me, like Hurricane fly is that I'm not interested in making small incremental gains on low priced horses so I tend to double them up. Using my strongest selection on the day from my daily betting I can then try and get something for Cheltenham on board.

For example, today on my daily fund I had 2x0.5pt win dbls jungle jack and inneston/Atlanta boy. On my antepost fund I had 1pt win dbl jungle jack and state man. JJ was my strongest fancy on the day but 11/4 isn't a bet that interests me as a single so although I lost 1pt on that X double on my daily fund, I now have December's champion hurdle favourite (when constitution has gone chasing) for 33pts at the festival on my antepost fund.

Different things for different people but if I'm betting on the racing anyway, which I do - might as well try and get future winners to bigger returns while I do it so I can enjoy them more if (when!) They win

[Redbridge]

Good Morning Guys, probably had this question in the past but Bet 365 have limited my stakes about 12-24 months ago following a review of the trading team. Restricted so much so that my maximum stake is ?0.00 on multiples. I have already run through family/friends accounts and they all have same limitations now. Is there any way round this restriction being lifted? Im on live chat now with them after i hoped it being so long the restrictions would have lifted, but they are still in place.

The older I became and the family option is virtually zilch and with no kids and the few surviving friends are hardly into racing so I have managed to place three festival bets trying not impact on my pals last remaining account.
At 75 this was my first festival absence since the 80s, looking forward to Newmarket returning and placing a bet on the rails, racing was always my hobby and I used to drive up to the old Mirrior building after midnight to get a copy of the Sporting Life and burn the midnight oil for couple hours pre the net.
The game's well and truely finnished.

[archie]

There can be a balance depending on how you want to play Cheltenham, it can help build a book and theoretically you could lose every one, however it will have saved you money by covering horses for a smaller outlay.

To get a true picture of the 'benefit' of a roll up, don't you have to factor in all those that go down in the first leg? All very well to have 20/1 about a horse that starts at 4/1 but if you've blown several units on failed bets it feels like a false economy.

[Hurricane fly]

To get a true picture of the 'benefit' of a roll up, don't you have to factor in all those that go down in the first leg? All very well to have 20/1 about a horse that starts at 4/1 but if you've blown several units on failed bets it feels like a false economy.

Absolutely, if you use roll ups you need to be honest with yourself about the losing bets to.

For example in my diary last year I had 66pts lost down to failed roll ups, and in some incidents like Allegorie De Vassy I would have been in a better position if I would have just put everything as a single. I've not done a deep dive but I'm pretty sure they were worth it for me but wouldn't pretend they were an uncontested gold mine.

[Benjy23]

To get a true picture of the 'benefit' of a roll up, don't you have to factor in all those that go down in the first leg? All very well to have 20/1 about a horse that starts at 4/1 but if you've blown several units on failed bets it feels like a false economy.

Aye, appreciated the response as per other strategies but even with the explanation of using it for book building it still doesn't make much sense. And you'd be much better just doing the singles instead of your 'roll ups' and not bothering building any books at all, if the 'roll up' initial selections were that successful...

Unless I'm still confused about it.

I kind of get it if Cheltenham is your whole end goal. And you don't mind losing money the rest of the year to try and claw it back on the one event you truly enjoy. I've no issue with that like but it's worth calling it what it is imo.

[Hurricane fly]

Benjy23 I see your issue as being as much about how they are recorded as anything else.

For example an evens doubled with a 4/1 will usually be shown as 9/1 - 1pt, but if it was shown as 4/1 - 2pt it would be doing exactly what you are saying.

I think that issue was discussed in length about 2 years ago when people - myself very much included - started to do more doubles/trebles finishing with a Chelt selection. It's frankly just easily to record as 9/1 as people like Skybet show the total odds at the top of the bet as opposed to working out how much the the first leg would have won, and I wouldn't do it as a single then wait for result to put the Cheltenham bet on because why risk losing the odds given how quickly bookies are cutting horses.


As for, if they are so successful why not just do singles, for me again as I said before I'll usually use bets I wouldn't see as worthwhile doing as a single to boost a Cheltenham bet. However your point about is the year about Cheltenham your own goal, is a fair question and actually true for me, I'm not hoping to win hundreds every month but have Chelts as one big prize at the end of the year