2023 Mares Chase

[Many Clouds]

On a related note, having said all the above, I did take the 16/1 from SkyBet on their being 3 or more winners from the 2022 festival winning again in 2023’s. Constitution Hill, Energumene, and Delta Work is a shorter treble. Plus you have the handicappers, and 2 of the 3 above have 2nd favs who won last year too. Thought the price was too big.

Is this bet not just repeat winners of the championship races in the Cheltenham deja vu section? Had a look and that the only one I can find. So it's just Honeysuckle, Energumene, Flooring Porter and A Plus Tard.

[FinalFurlong91]

ADV given a 157 rpr for Sunday

[DenmanSacre]

ADV given a 157 rpr for Sunday

Joint highest novice chaser with Timeform as well when factoring in the sex allowance.

[Spectre]

The last few pages have this as a two horse race. I understand that, but these aren't unexposed novices in a handicap, this is an open graded chase, where inexperience can be an issue.

I fully understand the case for Allegorie de Vassy. She's clearly smart with a big engine, but jumping at speed going left handed at Cheltenham doesn't look as though it'll obviously suit. She's had a couple of unextended plods around, not coming off the bridle, and hasn't looked straightforward in the jumping department.

I also fully understand the case for Impervious. But she also hasn't been foot perfect the last twice, and watching her race again last March, there's a case that could be made that she may not act at Cheltenham, and also that she can throw in a howler. We also have to believe she's improved nearly two stone as a novice chaser, which I'm also not sold on.

What I'm saying here is that I would not be surprised at all if one, or even both of them, were turned over by an experienced mare. And I think it could be a smart move to consider getting one of the experienced mares onside for each way cover. Allegorie de Vassy and Impervious two are making the market and there's some value prices behind them. At 7/1, 14/1, and 50/1. the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th home last year are all worth considering for example. We know they act, and they have the jumping experience, which are ticks in the boxes that are missing from the big two.

[Lbur4288]

Jeremys Flame one of those Spectre? Whilst I think ADV will outclass them as long as she can cut the little mistakes out (and the big ones) I think Jeremy's Flame ticks a lot of boxes. She's 9 now but won over numerous trips in both codes and wasn't good enough against some of the fancied horses elsewhere. A race against her own sex might be the best plan for her and she's 25s.

[Quevega]

I was fighting the experienced horses argument at the start of the season when unraced novices were very short prices and fancied by many on here.

However, having seen them both run a couple of times or so, there is no doubt they have more ability than any of the older mares.

But the jumping is what might find them out.
Especially ADV as her jumping has been poor, I don't care how anyone wants to flower it up, she has looked like falling far too often and the jink to the right thing .
Townend will need to be at his very best.

It's going to be a very interesting race as I think the more experienced lot will turn up as they will see the potential flaws and look to exploit them.
Might get some silly prices nearer the day if they both turn up as most of the betting will focus on those 2 for all the very obvious reasons Ricci v McManus etc.
Taking prices now may work out, but I think only if one or both don't turn up.

[Saxon Warrior]

Jeremys Flame one of those Spectre? Whilst I think ADV will outclass them as long as she can cut the little mistakes out (and the big ones) I think Jeremy's Flame ticks a lot of boxes. She's 9 now but won over numerous trips in both codes and wasn't good enough against some of the fancied horses elsewhere. A race against her own sex might be the best plan for her and she's 25s.

She runs in the Listed Protectress Mares Chase on Friday vs Zambella and Pink Legend.

This represents a decent field of experienced Mares Chase candidates, so we should get a good lead in to see which of these can make their best case for the Festival.

[ComplyOrDie]

Bit of a form line between Allegorie De Vassy & Impervious through Brides Hill which I missed (yes I know, form lines are subjective ).

Brides Hill got beat 13 lengths by Journey With Me getting 7lbs

Impervious beat Journey With Me by 1/2 length giving him 1lb

Brides Hill got beat by Allegorie De Vassy 19 lengths getting 5lbs

Brides Hill got RPR's of 127 for both runs, so it would suggest she's run to her level on both occasions, if these are to be believed.

On bare form it would suggest Allegorie De Vassy has 2 1/2-3lbs in hand over Impervious, but this probably doesn't tell the whole story.

For a start, on hurdles form alone, Impervious is well behind Allegorie De Vassy on a line through Brandy Love (17 lengths behind BL at Fairyhouse, and ADV beat, possibly fortuitously, BL by 3 1/2 lengths), so has she really improved the required amount for a fence?

Also, the manner of victories, and whilst the whip was never used on Impervious against Journey With Me, I think it's fair to say she had to be rousted along a fair bit, and likewise, Journey With Me had to ridden out against Brides Hill, so all in all has Impervious got loads in hand, I'm not so sure. Allegorie De Vassy on the other hand is all class, and with the exception of one or two dodgy jumps (OK, one was very serious), she absolutely bolts up against Brides Hill in a hack canter, without even coming off the bridle.

For me, Allegorie De Vassy is just a level or two above the rest of the mares, and I think the only reason I want Impervious onside is the niggling doubt about that jumping to the right by Allegorie De Vassy. IF she turns up and jumps well I don't see any of the others getting withing 8-10 lengths of her personally. She's got the biggest engine, by far.

[Lobos]

Blimey, You'll give yourself a headache COD !

[ComplyOrDie]

Blimey, You'll give yourself a headache COD !

I usually wake up next to one!

This is therapy for me

[YoungHustler]

Bit of a form line between Allegorie De Vassy & Impervious through Brides Hill which I missed (yes I know, form lines are subjective ).

Brides Hill got beat 13 lengths by Journey With Me getting 7lbs

Impervious beat Journey With Me by 1/2 length giving him 1lb

Brides Hill got beat by Allegorie De Vassy 19 lengths getting 5lbs

Brides Hill got RPR's of 127 for both runs, so it would suggest she's run to her level on both occasions, if these are to be believed.

On bare form it would suggest Allegorie De Vassy has 2 1/2-3lbs in hand over Impervious, but this probably doesn't tell the whole story.

For a start, on hurdles form alone, Impervious is well behind Allegorie De Vassy on a line through Brandy Love (17 lengths behind BL at Fairyhouse, and ADV beat, possibly fortuitously, BL by 3 1/2 lengths), so has she really improved the required amount for a fence?

Also, the manner of victories, and whilst the whip was never used on Impervious against Journey With Me, I think it's fair to say she had to be rousted along a fair bit, and likewise, Journey With Me had to ridden out against Brides Hill, so all in all has Impervious got loads in hand, I'm not so sure. Allegorie De Vassy on the other hand is all class, and with the exception of one or two dodgy jumps (OK, one was very serious), she absolutely bolts up against Brides Hill in a hack canter, without even coming off the bridle.

For me, Allegorie De Vassy is just a level or two above the rest of the mares, and I think the only reason I want Impervious onside is the niggling doubt about that jumping to the right by Allegorie De Vassy. IF she turns up and jumps well I don't see any of the others getting withing 8-10 lengths of her personally. She's got the biggest engine, by far.

I was concerned by ADV's jumping lto but although still a worry, it was negated following Willie 's comments that she hadn't schooled in the lead up to the race and the time compared to Fakir D'Oudaries. She would have beat Fakir imo.

[jack1092]

I remember Ruby mentioning after Cork how Impervious jumps like a mare that lacks scope. That could well be found out come March i'd say.

Spectre You mention 7-1 so presumably Scarlet + Dove, she's really talented - but also has a real bad jump in her.

[Lbur4288]

Some of the Mares chase candidates on show in the 3.00 Huntingdon today. Zambella one of the better offerings from UK mare chasers but my interest is in Jeremy's Flame. Its a big ask for her to win the Mares chase anyway but I think Gavin Cromwell will be wanting her to win today if she is to stand a chance. The fact he's sent her for a Mares race over here is a positive for me as its possible that the Cheltenham Mares chase is now the plan. 25/1 isn't the worst each way bet.

[Birds Nest]

I was concerned by ADV's jumping lto but although still a worry, it was negated following Willie 's comments that she hadn't schooled in the lead up to the race and the time compared to Fakir D'Oudaries. She would have beat Fakir imo.

Something i didnt realise until recently is that willie doesnt believe in a lot of schooling, he likes his novices to learn in races.

[HesTheOne]

Something i didnt realise until recently is that willie doesnt believe in a lot of schooling, he likes his novices to learn in races.

Tony Mullins referred to something similar in his on talk on Princess Zoe.

To paraphrase: “All Mullins I think are not intensive schoolers.. Mullins are of the belief that intensive schooling only ups your chances of injury”