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2023 Novice Chasers

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  • Having reviewed what WPM has said I'm confident GDM goes NHC. That being said, I certainly wouldn't back him at 6/4. Explain both views below:

    Post debut WPM said he'd stick to Grade 1's. Yesterday was the perfect time to reinforce that view, but he said - "I think we'll continue on the Grade 1 path. We might come back to Leopardstown for the Dublin Racing Festival and then decide whether he goes for the National Hunt Chase or the Brown Advisory". For me, it sounds like the decision has already been made. When he uses the word 'good' 3 times - 'His form was good, his rating was good – everything was good except he was still a maiden' - it reinforces that yesterday was a good performance that was no more than good. Willie is a creature of habit, they stepped him up after trying 3m for the first time last year and he made a point of saying 'I think another five or so furlongs wouldn't be any harm to him at all'. I chuckled when he said 'I'm not sure if Patrick has a better option as a ride for the National Hunt Chase yet but I haven't got around to asking him' because I don't think thats true at all. All of that screams NHC IMO and the market screams NHC so thats probably what it will be. I suspect he'll either be tucked away now until Cheltenham, or, go to the Grade 1 over 2m5f at the DRF with strict instructions not to have a hard race. I think connections will look back to last years BANC and be keen to avoid a repeat. If we keep it really simple. Willie will just go for the easiest race, which is the NHC.

    My only criticism (which makes the NHC even more likely) is he's not the most natural jumper of a fence under pressure in the latter stage of races. Just to be clear, I am not saying he's a bad jumper and I can't stress that point enough, but, he's 6/4 and we must pick holes in horses that short, especially when they have 2 potential targets and its taken them 7 attempts to win over fences. He's been pitched into some bloody hot races and even in defeat run very very well, but I think if we had to settle on one weakness that wasn't eczema, its his jumping. He actually jumped the last in the Drinmore superbly and it was a really good round of jumping, but I didn't feel the same about yesterday. He dove at a few fences and snatched at the last. I don't know if 'snatched' is the right word to use, but he can make an awkward shape when under pressure. That last 2 fences in the BANC are a really good example of this (recommend watching it back). It might be his jumping technique but if you watch others, they carry their momentum on landing whereas GDM does not. There is no question IMO it was costing him ground and if you look back to the Irish National, you will see more of the same. Dived at third last and took the second last with him which ultimately cost him the race. I think it's worth noting that was his first attempt at a marathon trip off the back of a gut busting effort at Cheltenham, so perhaps weakness in the strength of his finish can be excused. Other very fair valid counters to what I have said - he's older, more mature and more experienced. The NHC is the perfect race to lob along and will mitigate some of the issues he's had. I think I've talked myself into 95/5. He's a worthy favourite, don't get me wrong, and you don't need to be the best jumper in the world to win the NHC either, so I'd add that too, its just a small niggle in the back of my mind for a horse who is that short.



    Comment


    • Originally posted by charlie View Post
      Having reviewed what WPM has said I'm confident GDM goes NHC. That being said, I certainly wouldn't back him at 6/4. Explain both views below:

      Post debut WPM said he'd stick to Grade 1's. Yesterday was the perfect time to reinforce that view, but he said - "I think we'll continue on the Grade 1 path. We might come back to Leopardstown for the Dublin Racing Festival and then decide whether he goes for the National Hunt Chase or the Brown Advisory". For me, it sounds like the decision has already been made. When he uses the word 'good' 3 times - 'His form was good, his rating was good – everything was good except he was still a maiden' - it reinforces that yesterday was a good performance that was no more than good. Willie is a creature of habit, they stepped him up after trying 3m for the first time last year and he made a point of saying 'I think another five or so furlongs wouldn't be any harm to him at all'. I chuckled when he said 'I'm not sure if Patrick has a better option as a ride for the National Hunt Chase yet but I haven't got around to asking him' because I don't think thats true at all. All of that screams NHC IMO and the market screams NHC so thats probably what it will be. I suspect he'll either be tucked away now until Cheltenham, or, go to the Grade 1 over 2m5f at the DRF with strict instructions not to have a hard race. I think connections will look back to last years BANC and be keen to avoid a repeat. If we keep it really simple. Willie will just go for the easiest race, which is the NHC.

      My only criticism (which makes the NHC even more likely) is he's not the most natural jumper of a fence under pressure in the latter stage of races. Just to be clear, I am not saying he's a bad jumper and I can't stress that point enough, but, he's 6/4 and we must pick holes in horses that short, especially when they have 2 potential targets and its taken them 7 attempts to win over fences. He's been pitched into some bloody hot races and even in defeat run very very well, but I think if we had to settle on one weakness that wasn't eczema, its his jumping. He actually jumped the last in the Drinmore superbly and it was a really good round of jumping, but I didn't feel the same about yesterday. He dove at a few fences and snatched at the last. I don't know if 'snatched' is the right word to use, but he can make an awkward shape when under pressure. That last 2 fences in the BANC are a really good example of this (recommend watching it back). It might be his jumping technique but if you watch others, they carry their momentum on landing whereas GDM does not. There is no question IMO it was costing him ground and if you look back to the Irish National, you will see more of the same. Dived at third last and took the second last with him which ultimately cost him the race. I think it's worth noting that was his first attempt at a marathon trip off the back of a gut busting effort at Cheltenham, so perhaps weakness in the strength of his finish can be excused. Other very fair valid counters to what I have said - he's older, more mature and more experienced. The NHC is the perfect race to lob along and will mitigate some of the issues he's had. I think I've talked myself into 95/5. He's a worthy favourite, don't get me wrong, and you don't need to be the best jumper in the world to win the NHC either, so I'd add that too, its just a small niggle in the back of my mind for a horse who is that short.


      Hi Charlie, I hope you’re right. The only thing I would add is if you watched the RacingTV interview with Gary O’Brien, from which the quotes above were garnered, then it was Gary O’Brien whom initiated the comment directly about Patrick. I think Gary O’Brien specifically asked if Patrick had a better horse for the NHC, to which Willie replied as you’ve highlighted above. Hence, my only point being is Willie didn’t offer it up unprompted which I think would have been more insightful.

      Come on Willie, send him to the NHC.
      Last edited by Cheltenham Novice Chase; 30 December 2022, 09:38 AM.

      Comment


      • I think too much was made of Willie's grade 1 comments, at the moment he said it, he probably didn't even realise the NH chase was a grade 2. And people would read into it. I think he was just saying he's not going for any handicaps any time soon.

        The biggest danger for GDM to run in the RSA is if he ends up as Willie's best staying novice.
        Either by winning at Dublin, or the others finishing behind him or beaten elsewhere.
        If no other novice stayer of his wins a grade 1 or 2 (at a push 3) then I think the NH chase bets are in danger.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Quevega View Post
          I think too much was made of Willie's grade 1 comments, at the moment he said it, he probably didn't even realise the NH chase was a grade 2. And people would read into it. I think he was just saying he's not going for any handicaps any time soon.

          The biggest danger for GDM to run in the RSA is if he ends up as Willie's best staying novice.
          Either by winning at Dublin, or the others finishing behind him or beaten elsewhere.
          If no other novice stayer of his wins a grade 1 or 2 (at a push 3) then I think the NH chase bets are in danger.
          Yep, Willie couldn't give a shit about winning a Grade 1 over a Grade 2, it's all about his tally at the end of the week.


          Comment


          • Originally posted by Quevega View Post
            I think too much was made of Willie's grade 1 comments, at the moment he said it, he probably didn't even realise the NH chase was a grade 2. And people would read into it. I think he was just saying he's not going for any handicaps any time soon.

            The biggest danger for GDM to run in the RSA is if he ends up as Willie's best staying novice.
            Either by winning at Dublin, or the others finishing behind him or beaten elsewhere.
            If no other novice stayer of his wins a grade 1 or 2 (at a push 3) then I think the NH chase bets are in danger.
            Spot on in my view. Plus those better staying novices would have to make it to the Festival healthy. This is my worry with his NHC price right now; you are betting that Classic Getaway, James du Berlais or Minella Cocooner are better, that they make it to the Festival and that Gaillard du Mesnil then wins the NHC. Obviously could all happen but the current odds feel slim for it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by The Giant Bolster View Post

              Spot on in my view. Plus those better staying novices would have to make it to the Festival healthy. This is my worry with his NHC price right now; you are betting that Classic Getaway, James du Berlais or Minella Cocooner are better, that they make it to the Festival and that Gaillard du Mesnil then wins the NHC. Obviously could all happen but the current odds feel slim for it.
              Definitely worth waiting for the nrnb price isn't it? I'll take 4/5 nrnb over 6/4 without that guarantee personally. Although both odds are stingy to say the least
              EDIT: I should clarify for the numbskulls like me who have the bigger prices in nhc covered in multiples but not as a single!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Giant Bolster View Post

                Spot on in my view. Plus those better staying novices would have to make it to the Festival healthy. This is my worry with his NHC price right now; you are betting that Classic Getaway, James du Berlais or Minella Cocooner are better, that they make it to the Festival and that Gaillard du Mesnil then wins the NHC. Obviously could all happen but the current odds feel slim for it.
                That’s exactly how I would see it, possibly add in Ramillies so you’ve potentially 5 ‘staying chasers’ to sort themselves out. One of those likely to drop down in distance also.

                Kilcruit and I Am Maximus I am, possibly too soon, writing off as not going to be good enough. Sir Gerhard very unlikely now to go chasing, although WPM may possibly feel at his age and wasting a year over hurdles like with Appreciate It when he had a setback is not worth it. If he can get a run into him before Cheltenham then it’s always an option.

                Comment


                • James Du Berlais declared for fairyhouse

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by darlojim View Post
                    James Du Berlais declared for fairyhouse
                    Insert its alive gif

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by darlojim View Post
                      James Du Berlais declared for fairyhouse
                      Schooling in public

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kevloaf View Post

                        Schooling in public
                        Over/unders 25L!!

                        Comment


                        • I suspect we might see 1 of appreciate it or el fab in the race in naas which Energumene won, the timing works well in comparison with their previous runs & still being able to go to the Irish Arkle if Willie chooses so.

                          If whichever it is impresses over 2 miles then he may decide to run the other in the flogas at the DRF (or try 2m4 elsewhere beforehand). This is assuming it’s cast in stone that Dysart will stick to 2m (assumption I’m working off) and the Irish Arkle is timed nicely for his next run.

                          Must say though echo comments of the previous 2 or 3 pages that I’m enjoying that there is a bit more intrigue to the 3 novice chases this year.

                          Classic Getaway wants every yard of 3 miles for me, if he’s good enough then he will run in the RSA but the NHC could even be an option for him if he proves to be below gr1 class. I certainly think something will beat him in the flogas if that’s where he goes next. I’m surprised he wasn’t in the grade 1 this week to be honest, maybe wanted softer ground? Can’t remember at what stage he was taken out of the entries

                          Minella Cocooner despite Mullins comments I can’t see as being one for less than 3 miles either. Fair enough if he’d ran badly in the AB they could be saying got it wrong wants a shorter trip but he ran well and was a good second. Odd we didn’t see him at Xmas also imo especially given he had option of running in the race GDC did last year over the mid trip. Think he’s not a boat though and wouldn’t be worried he could be routed to the 4 miler.

                          James Du Berlais who knows has been off a long time and there’s far from a guarantee they come back as good as they went off. Entry in a 2m5 beginners you can probably be certain he won’t be running in the Arkle but not much more.

                          and that’s just scratching the surface of the Mullins horses let alone getting into what Elliott has though I think after the sad loss of TSL it seems pretty simple now where his horses are concerned

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                          • Well I after that performance I think I can rule The Real Whacker out of the Ultima, surely the trainer will be aiming him at either the Turners or the Brown Advisory after that win.

                            Monmiral might win something at aintree, but he's winning nothing at Cheltenham.


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JamieSensible View Post
                              Well I after that performance I think I can rule The Real Whacker out of the Ultima, surely the trainer will be aiming him at either the Turners or the Brown Advisory after that win.

                              Monmiral might win something at aintree, but he's winning nothing at Cheltenham.

                              Thunder Rock flew home up the hill too, could he be one for the browns or not going to have the class do we think?

                              Comment


                              • JDB jumped well,impressive but beat nothing

                                Might be a bit keen for a BANC

                                I hope

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