2023 Gold Cup

[Saxon Warrior]

Kauto Star was a true Champion, with super-longevity for a 3M Chaser.

Easy to fall in love with him and his performances.

I view his 2 Gold Cup wins being at the top end of his stamina limitations, and that 3M probably suited him better.

His Cheltenham form was all in Grade 1 races

Form figures at the track: F121F3P
Even he didnt win at Cheltenham after he was 9yo, in 3 goes.

Just goes to show how difficult it is for 10yo+ to win Festival Grade 1s beyond 2M, like the Gold Cup (and the Ryanair)

His Kempton Grade 1 3M form was 111131,
and that track and trip was tailor-made for him.

Haydock too with the Betfair Chase over 2M7F.

He's probably the best 3M Chaser I've seen, along with Dessie.

I'd say over the Gold Cup trip there's others Ive seen than can rival his form at Cheltenham.
Hes not the best Gold Cup winner I’ve seen.

[Istabraq]

Kauto Star was a true Champion, with super-longevity for a 3M Chaser.

Easy to fall in love with him and his performances.

I view his 2 Gold Cup wins being at the top end of his stamina limitations, and that 3M probably suited him better.

His Cheltenham form was all in Grade 1 races

Form figures at the track: F121F3P
Even he didnt win at Cheltenham after he was 9yo, in 3 goes.

Just goes to show how difficult it is for 10yo+ to win Festival Grade 1s beyond 2M, like the Gold Cup (and the Ryanair)

His Kempton Grade 1 3M form was 111131,
and that track and trip was tailor-made for him.

Haydock too with the Betfair Chase over 2M7F.

He's probably the best 3M Chaser I've seen, along with Dessie.

I'd say over the Gold Cup trip there's others Ive seen than can rival his form at Cheltenham.
Hes not the best Gold Cup winner I’ve seen.

Very fair assessment for me that SW.
One thing that gets forgotten/ignored is versatility which is why Dessie will always be the best chaser for me; 2m Tingle Creeks giving 2 stone (it was once a handicap) to specialist two milers, winning 3m 5f Irish National by 12l off 12 stone and of course that heavy ground Gold Cup, it's always an emotive subject others will hold different views of course.
But that doesn't mean we can't recognise and enjoy new generations, I personally think GDC proved himself to be the best around (staying chaser) by some distance last Friday, for me it's debatable whether he deserves that RPR and if he comes back next year and the year after and proves himself just as good he can be talked about as an absolute great.
So exciting for racing to have GDC and C Hill around, plenty more talent of course but in those two we have some exciting times ahead...

[Kevloaf]

Very fair assessment for me that SW.
One thing that gets forgotten/ignored is versatility which is why Dessie will always be the best chaser for me; 2m Tingle Creeks giving 2 stone (it was once a handicap) to specialist two milers, winning 3m 5f Irish National by 12l off 12 stone and of course that heavy ground Gold Cup, it's always an emotive subject others will hold different views of course.
But that doesn't mean we can't recognise and enjoy new generations, I personally think GDC proved himself to be the best around (staying chaser) by some distance last Friday, for me it's debatable whether he deserves that RPR and if he comes back next year and the year after and proves himself just as good he can be talked about as an absolute great.
So exciting for racing to have GDC and C Hill around, plenty more talent of course but in those two we have some exciting times ahead...

I got a little bit excited then thinking that perhaps the bookies also thought GDC was by far the best around and that they'd have dismissed Bravemansgame as a good staying chaser and pushed him out for the King George.

Unfortunately that was me living in la la land and he shortened from 10/3 to 5/2

[Istabraq]

I got a little bit excited then thinking that perhaps the bookies also thought GDC was by far the best around and that they'd have dismissed Bravemansgame as a good staying chaser and pushed him out for the King George.

Unfortunately that was me living in la la land and he shortened from 10/3 to 5/2

BMG 5/2 for a King George in March is terrible, laughable even...

[Hurricane fly]

I wasn't watching racing for the likes of Desert Orchid but I often think winning a handicap at top weight for a true Grade 1 horse is rather over rated.

The gap between a G1 horse and a handicapper is far greater than ratings will admit and so while you may carry a stone more than others they are used to carrying 11'12 so it's not like they are running round with a bigger weight than normal. Horses have a max speed regardless of weight imo, as someone said fast horses can run slow but slow horses can't run fast.

You can take 2 stone off Our Powers back and he isn't able to go the same pace as GDC.

[Ray]

I wasn't watching racing for the likes of Desert Orchid but I often think winning a handicap at top weight for a true Grade 1 horse is rather over rated.

The gap between a G1 horse and a handicapper is far greater than ratings will admit and so while you may carry a stone more than others they are used to carrying 11'12 so it's not like they are running round with a bigger weight than normal. Horses have a max speed regardless of weight imo, as someone said fast horses can run slow but slow horses can't run fast.

You can take 2 stone off Our Powers back and he isn't able to go the same pace as GDC.

I like this way of thinking ive always thought the same, but its still a good weight carrying performance from great horse or a normal horse regardless, giving weight to any horses still puts you at a disadvantage

[Istabraq]

I wasn't watching racing for the likes of Desert Orchid but I often think winning a handicap at top weight for a true Grade 1 horse is rather over rated.
.

Back in the day the current grade system didn’t exist, most big races were handicaps, others will no doubt remember better than me but the likes of the Tingle Creek, the Clarence House were handicaps, the country's best horses all ran in these, there was no G1 or equivalent alternative.
Also, another fact that gets lost is that Dessie ran 7/8/9 times a year, this generations best horses are seen what, 4 times a year ?
Dessie was still winning King Georges at 11 and retired at 12 after (from memory) 65 races, so the workload hardly shortened his career…

[Saxon Warrior]

Back in the day the current grade system didn’t exist, most big races were handicaps, others will no doubt remember better than me but the likes of the Tingle Creek, the Clarence House were handicaps, the country's best horses all ran in these, there was no G1 or equivalent alternative.
Also, another fact that gets lost is that Dessie ran 7/8/9 times a year, this generations best horses are seen what, 4 times a year ?
Dessie was still winning King Georges at 11 and retired at 12 after (from memory) 65 races, so the workload hardly shortened his career…

An absolute superstar Istabraq

What a performance to win the Gold Cup when he didng like to go "the wrong way round"

[Istabraq]

An absolute superstar Istabraq

What a performance to win the Gold Cup when he didng like to go "the wrong way round"

That Gold Cup would have been abandoned had it been any other raceday, and created one of the most memorable pieces of commentary.
Absolutely an absolute star…

[Lobos]

That Gold Cup would have been abandoned had it been any other raceday, and created one of the most memorable pieces of commentary.
Absolutely an absolute star…

I remember walking across the course and my feet going in above the top of my ankles. It was impossible for him to win on that ground but he found a way.

[Istabraq]

I remember walking across the course and my feet going in above the top of my ankles. It was impossible for him to win on that ground but he found a way.

Watching the occasional race from the middle of the course is something I only started doing about 15 years ago but there seemed to be masses there for that race, were there any guidelines/restrictions ?
And where was access from ?

Shame but I don’t think anyone has been allowed in the middle since the 2019 Cross Country…

[Lobos]

Watching the occasional race from the middle of the course is something I only started doing about 15 years ago but there seemed to be masses there for that race, were there any guidelines/restrictions ?
And where was access from ?

Shame but I don’t think anyone has been allowed in the middle since the 2019 Cross Country…

Walking across the course was the only access at that time to what is now the Best Mate enclosure. It was basically a cow shed back then with just a handful of Bookies. I remember one year several people were standing on top of the cow shed and fell through the asbestos roof. It's improved a bit since those days !!

[Irish Rugby]

Watching the occasional race from the middle of the course is something I only started doing about 15 years ago but there seemed to be masses there for that race, were there any guidelines/restrictions ?
And where was access from ?

Shame but I don’t think anyone has been allowed in the middle since the 2019 Cross Country…

I watched a fair few races in the middle of the course back in the day. I remember there was a 20 minute window between races where the course allowed you to cross over. Don't think that many took up the offer, so it was never really full, nor were there from memory any facilities there. You just watched the race and came back over to the grandstand once the race was over.

That Gold Cup day in 89 when Desert Orchid won was a bit like the Wednesday last year. 3 days then, and it was a Thursday afternoon.

[Istabraq]

I watched a fair few races in the middle of the course back in the day. I remember there was a 20 minute window between races where the course allowed you to cross over. Don't think that many took up the offer, so it was never really full, nor were there from memory any facilities there. You just watched the race and came back over to the grandstand once the race was over.

I probably watched my first race there around 2005 ?
There was a burger van, tote kiosk and portable toilets, the tote kiosk is still there.
They used to stop you from going over there when the ground was very deep but that hasn't been the case this year and still they close the middle, so looks like a strategy change, which is a shame and I hope it comes back...

[gwaaan]

Can anyone see Allaho having a crack at the GC next year?

Hypothetically, if he is sound and has won a couple of chases throughout the season, they’d give this a go wouldn’t they?

He’s the best racehorse I’ve seen in the flesh