2023 Stayers Hurdle

[Carnage at Taunton]

I haven't got a penny on Marie's Rock for either race but to me she'd have a good chance in either race so can see the case for both sides of the argument, though if Henderson didn't have Epatante for the mares she'd more than likely be running in that.

Well if she has a good chance in either, then maybe connections are right to go for the bigger race, especially as she’s already won the other one.
I also can imagine that working both horses today has helped, as stepping up has been mooted before, and now it seems they are doing it.

[Many Clouds]

Personally going to be gutted if MR ends up here. Think she wins the Mares emphatically and have a stupid amount of multiples that depend on her doing so. Odds look to have really shortened up on the exchange for the Stayers though.

Last matched at 6.0 for the Stayers and 12.5 for the Mares.

I asked the question to friends of connections yesterday to see if they knew anything. Said that the decision will still be made late and the syndicate members are split on which way to go. But in his opinion they will still go to the Mares and not throw her in at 3mile for the first time at the festival.

Hope he's right.

[Istabraq]

Personally going to be gutted if MR ends up here. Think she wins the Mares emphatically and have a stupid amount of multiples that depend on her doing so. Odds look to have really shortened up on the exchange for the Stayers though.

Last matched at 6.0 for the Stayers and 12.5 for the Mares.

I asked the question to friends of connections yesterday to see if they knew anything. Said that the decision will still be made late and the syndicate members are split on which way to go. But in his opinion they will still go to the Mares and not throw her in at 3mile for the first time at the festival.

Hope he's right.

Worth checking to make sure Hendo actually entered her in the Mares...

[Many Clouds]

Worth checking to make sure Hendo actually entered her in the Mares...

Haha I had the thought last night that the decision could be made to go for the Mares and then when it comes to final decs he forgets to press the button and she ends up in the Stayers by default. Be absolutely fuming

Not beyond the realms of possibility unfortunately.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Worth checking to make sure Hendo actually entered her in the Mares...

Haha, now now Istabraq

[qzy]

Personally going to be gutted if MR ends up here. Think she wins the Mares emphatically and have a stupid amount of multiples that depend on her doing so. Odds look to have really shortened up on the exchange for the Stayers though.

Last matched at 6.0 for the Stayers and 12.5 for the Mares.

I asked the question to friends of connections yesterday to see if they knew anything. Said that the decision will still be made late and the syndicate members are split on which way to go. But in his opinion they will still go to the Mares and not throw her in at 3mile for the first time at the festival.

Hope he's right.

This year Nicky has always had an eye on the stayers, MPR have always favoured the Mares. Around the turn of the year there was chat about the 2m5 at Aintree as the "step up" race (Epatante won it last year) but Nicky chirped up that CH might run in that! No decision has been made yet that I know of, but of course it may well be decided in private. If they had a plan to step CH up then I can see the reasoning for stepping MR up as well to avoid him.....

[Many Clouds]

This year Nicky has always had an eye on the stayers, MPR have always favoured the Mares. Around the turn of the year there was chat about the 2m5 at Aintree as the "step up" race (Epatante won it last year) but Nicky chirped up that CH might run in that! No decision has been made yet that I know of, but of course it may well be decided in private. If they had a plan to step CH up then I can see the reasoning for stepping MR up as well to avoid him.....

Surely the step up would be over 3 miles for MR as she has already ran 3 times over 2m5f. And still avoiding CH if he goes over 2m5f at Aintree?

[ComplyOrDie]

I personally think it's really poor of Henderson and Posh Boy trying to talk the owners into the stayers for Maries Rock.
It smacks of hypocrisy and selfishness.

It's usually trotted out by both that the Cheltenham festival is not the place to try something new. And you go for the race that's easiest blah de blah.

She's only really behind Honeysuckle on ratings in the Mares and that's doubtful based on this season.
She should be close to Favourite for the race.

And in the stayers she is likely to face at least 5 rivals that even with her allowance are rated better than her, in addition to one or two progressive types.

If Klassical Dream and Teahupoo line up she's facing 2 horses that beat Honeysuckle over 2m 4f anyhow.

I'm on at 10-1 but would rather she went to the mares personally. Especially as it looks like they are all turning up in the stayers.
She'd be available at about 7 or 8's I reckon if they all stand their ground.
But would be vying for favouritism with Honeysuckle in the mares.

If I owned the horse I'd tell them to get fucked.

I don't think I have anything else to add, other than that I agree with this completely, and I too have Marie's Rock backed for the Stayers.

She's drifted markedly on the exchanges for the mares now. She's 11.5 and last matched at 12, and really short for the Stayers, so I'd be surprised if that isn't decision made.

I think they've made room for Epatante personally, and it's p**s poor.

[qzy]

Surely the step up would be over 3 miles for MR as she has already ran 3 times over 2m5f. And still avoiding CH if he goes over 2m5f at Aintree?

At the higher level

[Carnage at Taunton]

I don't think I have anything else to add, other than that I agree with this completely, and I too have Marie's Rock backed for the Stayers.

She's drifted markedly on the exchanges for the mares now. She's 11.5 and last matched at 12, and really short for the Stayers, so I'd be surprised if that isn't decision made.

I think they've made room for Epatante personally, and it's p**s poor.

I would like to think they are trying to find a way of getting both horses, the best chance of winning a race.
Running in the same race won’t do it, unless they dead heat!!
They may end up with no wins, but then again….

[Odin]

I think they've made room for Epatante personally, and it's p**s poor.

I wonder how much is because Epatante was supposed to win the Fighting Fifth but Consitution got pulled from the Coral Hurdle so had to go there as well? I remember wrongly suggesting something similar with respect to the Christmas Hurdle (CH could have gone to Ireland), so may be hanging on to a theory that isn't there, but it's still not inconceivable in my eyes

[Odin]

I would like to think they are trying to find a way of getting both horses, the best chance of winning a race.
Running in the same race won’t do it, unless they dead heat!!
They may end up with no wins, but then again….

If the best chance of both horses winning a race is to run in the same race, that's the best race for them, irrespective if it means they can't both win their race. The decision that seems like it's being made is to give the best chance of both horses winning, rather than the best chance of each individual horse winning. Two different things for me. Could still both win which is fine, but decision "appears to be" being made for different reasons to what you're suggesting there.

Disclaimer of course that I know naff all about the conversations between owners/trainers so could be completely off the charts wrong

[Bert]

I’m deep into Home By The Lee.

Won his last two, including a grade one LTO. Lovely price, travels well.

[Carnage at Taunton]

If the best chance of both horses winning a race is to run in the same race, that's the best race for them, irrespective if it means they can't both win their race. The decision that seems like it's being made is to give the best chance of both horses winning, rather than the best chance of each individual horse winning. Two different things for me. Could still both win which is fine, but decision "appears to be" being made for different reasons to what you're suggesting there.

Disclaimer of course that I know naff all about the conversations between owners/trainers so could be completely off the charts wrong

Well of course I could be wrong as well.
None of us know.
Its what I would like to think though

[riccirich]

While I agree that henderson and boinville are thinking about themselves more than the owners, I don't think they're the only trainer who operate in that way, so If your gonna criticise them I think you have to criticise them all.

if sir gerhard was trained by anybody else then there's no way he'd be going for the banc after a winning two mile debut where he made one bad error, the natural thinking would of course be to move him up half a mile as he has plenty of speed and you couldn't be positive he'll stay 3m, especially after pulling like a train in the ballymore last year and just about getting away with it. The sole reason for them favouring the banc is willie and paul have appreciate it in the turners.

elliott was apparently going to run quilixios in the boodles to avoid zanahiyr. I think he would have found it very hard to give all that weight to jeff kidder,but was obviously good enough to win the triumph.

personally if I owned a horse with any of these top trainers it would bug me whenever they'd start trying to convince me to run my horse in a certain race, simply because they have something else in the more obvious race. You couldn't help but feel they're not looking after your best interests, and the likes of gavin cromwell would start to seem like maybe a better choice to avoid that sort of thing. Thats the tightrope you havd to walk I suppose when you grow your stable to such a huge size, its going to be hard to keep everyone happy and not look like your playing favourites with one owner over another.