2023 Ryanair

[archie]

I can't be having this 'Shishkin is a great' thing. In Henderson terms, Sprinter Sacre was a great, Altior was very good and Shishkin, for the time being, is good. If he wins the Ryanair by 10 lengths it would elevate him to the very good, ie about the Allaho level.

Yesterday, Shishkin beat a solid G2 horse comfortably. If I was to have a bet on the Ryanair, at the prices it would be Janidil each way rather than Shishkin win.

[Carnage at Taunton]

I can't be having this 'Shishkin is a great' thing. In Henderson terms, Sprinter Sacre was a great, Altior was very good and Shishkin, for the time being, is good. If he wins the Ryanair by 10 lengths it would elevate him to the very good, ie about the Allaho level.

Yesterday, Shishkin beat a solid G2 horse comfortably. If I was to have a bet on the Ryanair, at the prices it would be Janidil each way rather than Shishkin win.

Well I would agree Janadil is likely to place, probably a small field now that Shishkin has done that yesterday.
But if you can’t be having Shishkin as a great thing, that’s your choice, but imo be careful how much you part with to prove your point.
As for Allaho, it’s a real shame, cos that would have been something watching the two of them.

[Kevloaf]

I can't be having this 'Shishkin is a great' thing. In Henderson terms, Sprinter Sacre was a great, Altior was very good and Shishkin, for the time being, is good. If he wins the Ryanair by 10 lengths it would elevate him to the very good, ie about the Allaho level.

Yesterday, Shishkin beat a solid G2 horse comfortably. If I was to have a bet on the Ryanair, at the prices it would be Janidil each way rather than Shishkin win.

Hey! Shishkin beat the mighty Abacadabras a head in a Supreme.

Then he beat 100/1 future QMCC winner Funambule Sivola at Aintree.

Then he beat Greanateen away from Cheltenham, so Nicholls was actually trying!

Then he beat the mighty Energumene looking like he needs 4 miles.

Then he beat the best tipped handicapper ever in Pic D'Ohry



Have some respect for one of the GOATs

[DenmanSacre]

I can't be having this 'Shishkin is a great' thing. In Henderson terms, Sprinter Sacre was a great, Altior was very good and Shishkin, for the time being, is good. If he wins the Ryanair by 10 lengths it would elevate him to the very good, ie about the Allaho level.

Yesterday, Shishkin beat a solid G2 horse comfortably. If I was to have a bet on the Ryanair, at the prices it would be Janidil each way rather than Shishkin win.

I understand what you're saying. At the moment, Shishkin has won the Supreme and Arkle but not won the championship race for open aged horses yet. Arguably the best 2 miler last year from his beating of Energumene but the Clarence House isn't the Champion Chase.

He has however put up some very good ratings and yesterday was arguably a mid to high 170s performance. If he wins the Ryanair, as you say, he will move up a tier. Bit harsh on Allaho and Altior not being in the great category, but Sprinter is a tier above.

[Mighty]

RP have given Shishkin 178, and while I applaud the training performance to get him back to winning ways, is it really worth that rating? That’s 1lb less than his beating of Energumene in last year’s Clarence House, and he’s just beaten a below par Fakir who was nudged along barely halfway through, and a decent Grade 2 horse in Pic D’Orhy.

I’m scratching my head a bit, because I want Shishkin to be smashing it at Cheltenham and it to be a fairytale story, and maybe I’m second guessing myself, but it just feels wrong somehow.

The whole division feels like a bunch of punch drunk boxers wildly swinging at each other with inconsistent performances, and god knows who’s going to be the last one standing. Shishkin might win at Cheltenham, but I could just as easily see him not travel a yard and something else scoot up instead.

[Outlaw]

RP have given Shishkin 178, and while I applaud the training performance to get him back to winning ways, is it really worth that rating? That’s 1lb less than his beating of Energumene in last year’s Clarence House, and he’s just beaten a below par Fakir who was nudged along barely halfway through, and a decent Grade 2 horse in Pic D’Orhy.

I’m scratching my head a bit, because I want Shishkin to be smashing it at Cheltenham and it to be a fairytale story, and maybe I’m second guessing myself, but it just feels wrong somehow.

The whole division feels like a bunch of punch drunk boxers wildly swinging at each other with inconsistent performances, and god knows who’s going to be the last one standing. Shishkin might win at Cheltenham, but I could just as easily see him not travel a yard and something else scoot up instead.

He's right back to his best after that on Saturday for me 174+, Fakir has been below his best all season(mentioned what he did the last day vs ADV) but he's an 8yo with 29 races behind him his best days look to be behind him now. Pic been getting a bit of stick on here but he's been progressing this season and isn't out of place in G1s he won't always bump into one with as much ability as Shishkin and can't be far off a 160 horse however you rate him these days.

Shishkin has beat him easily, the figs read very well from the weekend especially on circuit on Literal terms you'd have to give him at least his rating of 174, The division without Allaho is now full of half a dozen low 160 types and him seemingly 10lb+ clear. The nag is obvs he's had the bone condition and could it/something like that resurface? If he runs like he did at the weekend I don't see what could finish infront of him but it lingers in the background.

[Carnage at Taunton]

He's right back to his best after that on Saturday for me 174+, Fakir has been below his best all season(mentioned what he did the last day vs ADV) but he's an 8yo with 29 races behind him his best days look to be behind him now. Pic been getting a bit of stick on here but he's been progressing this season and isn't out of place in G1s he won't always bump into one with as much ability as Shishkin and can't be far off a 160 horse however you rate him these days.

Shishkin has beat him easily, the figs read very well from the weekend especially on circuit on Literal terms you'd have to give him at least his rating of 174, The division without Allaho is now full of half a dozen low 160 types and him seemingly 10lb+ clear. The nag is obvs he's had the bone condition and could it/something like that resurface? If he runs like he did at the weekend I don't see what could finish infront of him but it lingers in the background.

Yeah, I think that’s a very fair post, and the most accurate I’ve read on here since Saturday’s race.

Not sure how good he is or was compared to others, but I do know he’s beaten the best 2 milers around the last few seasons.
Hes now for me showed he’s the best middle distance horse around.
But this is horse racing, things happen ,and he’s had his problems.
If they don’t reappear he’s as near a certainty you can get imo,looking at likely opposition

[Mighty]

He's right back to his best after that on Saturday for me 174+, Fakir has been below his best all season(mentioned what he did the last day vs ADV) but he's an 8yo with 29 races behind him his best days look to be behind him now. Pic been getting a bit of stick on here but he's been progressing this season and isn't out of place in G1s he won't always bump into one with as much ability as Shishkin and can't be far off a 160 horse however you rate him these days.

Shishkin has beat him easily, the figs read very well from the weekend especially on circuit on Literal terms you'd have to give him at least his rating of 174, The division without Allaho is now full of half a dozen low 160 types and him seemingly 10lb+ clear. The nag is obvs he's had the bone condition and could it/something like that resurface? If he runs like he did at the weekend I don't see what could finish infront of him but it lingers in the background.

Cheers Outlaw for the verification. As Carnage said, that's a good summary - fingers crossed he comes out of the race well, deals with the short turnaround to the Festival, and has rediscovered his love for it. Fascinating to hear Nicky thinking about stepping him up to 3m in the future too.

[archie]

But if you can’t be having Shishkin as a great thing, that’s your choice, but imo be careful how much you part with to prove your point.

That's the point though. I haven't had a bet because I don't have to.

[Carnage at Taunton]

That's the point though. I haven't had a bet because I don't have to.

Fair enough

[ComplyOrDie]

What on earth is this Gold Cup chat for Shishkin about?

He's won his first race under rules over 2m5f and suddenly he's a 3m2f horse? Whatttt?

Before the weekend he was 'gone at the game' to many.

Gold Cup talk can get in the bin

[Brooksie]

What on earth is this Gold Cup chat for Shishkin about?

He's won his first race under rules over 2m5f and suddenly he's a 3m2f horse? Whatttt?

Before the weekend he was 'gone at the game' to many.

Gold Cup talk can get in the bin

We could probably have a chat with his big brother Don Cossack see what he thinks.

[ComplyOrDie]

We could probably have a chat with his big brother Don Cossack see what he thinks.

The same Don Cossack who won the G1 John Durkan over 2m4f, the G2 Kinloch Brae over 2m4f (twice), the G1 Melling Chase over 2m4f, and then and only then, was stepped up in trip to win a Gold Cup before retiring. Massive difference between the pair and what Shishkin has achieved so far at the intermediate trip.

Also, if you're just using the sire as his 'brother' then why not ask Bob Olinger what he thinks of fences, or 3m, for that matter?

Just a weird thing to say based on the sire, it's not as if they are full brothers.

[FinalFurlong91]

What on earth is this Gold Cup chat for Shishkin about?

He's won his first race under rules over 2m5f and suddenly he's a 3m2f horse? Whatttt?

Before the weekend he was 'gone at the game' to many.

Gold Cup talk can get in the bin

Cough king george cough

[Eggs]

…imagine owners and trainers thoughts when Allaho was pulled, then imagine the same owners and trainers watching Shishkin on Saturday.

Plan A, then Plan B and now Plan A again.