2023 Ryanair

[Black Dog]

He'll still go Champion Chase. Cheltenham is completely different to Ascot so whatever the result there, we could get a different one in March.

He simply won't get smashed by Energumene though. He may get beat by him but smashed.....no.

You could argue that Shishkin got smashed by him last year even though he beat him.

[Lobos]

You could argue that Shishkin got smashed by him last year even though he beat him.

Shishkin beat him even though he looked like he needed every inch of the 2 miles and having regressed too. I have marked that defeat down on that basis. Energumene really should have won that race from the position he was in but he was outbattled. I'm still not convinced by him and any of his back form.

[Quevega]

Shishkin beat him even though he looked like he needed every inch of the 2 miles and having regressed too. I have marked that defeat down on that basis. Energumene really should have won that race from the position he was in but he was outbattled. I'm still not convinced by him and any of his back form.

I think that's a poor reading of the race.
It's one thing being a fan of Edwardstone but knocking Energumene on that race seems absurd. IMO.
The outbattled bit especially.
I'm not sure he even knew he was in a battle.
Probably felt like he was mugged though.

[Lobos]

I think that's a poor reading of the race.
It's one thing being a fan of Edwardstone but knocking Energumene on that race seems absurd. IMO.
The outbattled bit especially.
I'm not sure he even knew he was in a battle.
Probably felt like he was mugged though.

Shouldn't have got mugged though from that position. He wilted. Not about Edwardstone. I'd just like someone to give me one bit of evidence of a horse that Energumene has beaten that has since come out and performed to a top level standard. I've looked through his entire career and can't find one. Has he just been very , very well placed ? Please help me as I want to say he's a worthy champion but I can't ATM.

[FinalFurlong91]

Shishkin beat him even though he looked like he needed every inch of the 2 miles and having regressed too. I have marked that defeat down on that basis. Energumene really should have won that race from the position he was in but he was outbattled. I'm still not convinced by him and any of his back form.

That was the best run of shiskins life, regressed??

one of the best races we've seen in a long time

seems like a bit of confirmation bias to me

[Lobos]

That was the best run of shiskins life, regressed??

one of the best races we've seen in a long time

seems like a bit of confirmation bias to me

Was it though? Based on what Shishkin has done since ? Could he have been suffering during that race ? He didn't exactly sparkle. I'm not convinced. No confirmation bias. We are talking Energumene here and Energumene only. His form just doesn't stand up imo. Please help me.

[Quevega]

Was it though? Based on what Shishkin has done since ? Could he have been suffering during that race ? He didn't exactly sparkle. I'm not convinced. No confirmation bias. We are talking Energumene here and Energumene only. His form just doesn't stand up imo. Please help me.

https://twitter.com/hill_grange/status/1186371889037488129?lang=en-GB

[FinalFurlong91]

Was it though? Based on what Shishkin has done since ? Could he have been suffering during that race ? He didn't exactly sparkle. I'm not convinced. No confirmation bias. We are talking Energumene here and Energumene only. His form just doesn't stand up imo. Please help me.

Winning every race over fences bar one on the snaff by 8 lengths or further doesn't stand up?

what do you want him to have done?

[Lobos]

https://twitter.com/hill_grange/status/1186371889037488129?lang=en-GB

Bloody help me then, don't feel sorry for me !! Find me that evidence !
There isn't any is there.......i knew it.

[Lobos]

Winning every race over fences bar one on the snaff by 8 lengths or further doesn't stand up?

what do you want him to have done?

Not good enough FF. Try again. I've covered the being 'very, very well placed ' bit.
FInd me a horse behind him that has performed to a top level since. Don't be blinded by the 1's against his name. That's just lazy. Help !!!

[Craigy14]

Come on Lobos, you’re at it surely?

Energumene has been beat once in his career over fences against the best horse in training at the time.

He’s beating everything out of site, nothing has been good enough to live with him.

I don’t recall you picking many holes in Honeysuckles form?

[Lobos]

Come on Lobos, you’re at it surely?

Energumene has been beat once in his career over fences against the best horse in training at the time.

He’s beating everything out of site, nothing has been good enough to live with him.

I don’t recall you picking many holes in Honeysuckles form?

Not at it at all Am completely serious. Still no one brave enough to produce the evidence. I'll just have to leave it up to the horse.

[Craigy14]

Not at it at all Am completely serious. Still no one brave enough to produce the evidence. I'll just have to leave it up to the horse.

Form is only part of the puzzle though. Surely his performances and manner of victory in every race is head and shoulders above the opposition to worry too much about the form? Apart from shishkin, although in hindsight he broke him at ascot (looks like it) that’s the only horse to beat/get close to him.

So what you’ve seen from energumene isn’t enough to think he is a top top class animal?

But from what you’ve seen from Edwardstone is?

[Lobos]

Form is only part of the puzzle though. Surely his performances and manner of victory in every race is head and shoulders above the opposition to worry too much about the form? Apart from shishkin, although in hindsight he broke him at ascot (looks like it) that’s the only horse to beat/get close to him.

So what you’ve seen from energumene isn’t enough to think he is a top top class animal?

But from what you’ve seen from Edwardstone is?

Talking Energumene here Craigy. Nowt to do with Edwardstone. As I've said before, I've gone through every single one of his wins and the horses he's beat just haven't shown anything at all since. In fact , they've been pretty desperate. Yes he's beaten them soundly but, from what they've produced since, I'm not surprised. He's just been brilliantly placed by Mullins against what now appears to be very, very poor opposition.

[darlojim]

Not at it at all Am completely serious. Still no one brave enough to produce the evidence. I'll just have to leave it up to the horse.

Sometimes its not a case of what a horse beats, but in the manner of how they are doing it.

Lets be serious, Edwardstone has beaten absolutely naff all if you're playing that