2023 Champion Chase

[Carnage at Taunton]

Opinions on emergumene?

Feel like today shows he doesn't really have much of a turn of foot and they will need to revert to front running tactics for him to have any chance of regaining his crown. He never looked like having the gear change to close down the winner.

He's the only bet iv had in the race so no problem adding another it's just i was expecting today to provide answers and instead its provided loads of questions

Personally think he’s come along at the right time, got a tad fortunate with his Queen mum, and now been found out.
But hey, this is horse racing so I may be proved wrong!!

[Lobos]

Opinions on emergumene?

Feel like today shows he doesn't really have much of a turn of foot and they will need to revert to front running tactics for him to have any chance of regaining his crown. He never looked like having the gear change to close down the winner.

He's the only bet iv had in the race so no problem adding another it's just i was expecting today to provide answers and instead its provided loads of questions

I know I've questioned his previous form FF but that today didn't look like the real Energumene. I wouldn't be surprised if something was amiss with him.

[FinalFurlong91]

I know I've questioned his previous form FF but that today didn't look like the real Energumene. I wouldn't be surprised if something was amiss with him.

Yes he completely emptied and could barely lift a leg to get over the last

Which was odd as he'd travelled with his usual zest

Just watched the replay

Did cannon give edwardstone way too much to do? Or was edwardstone struggling to go the gallop editeur du gite set?

As I said I have lots of questions and absolutely no answers haha

[Lobos]

Cannon was following Energumene which clearly didn't work out well in view of how poorly he ran. March will be a different race again. All to play for yet.

[FinalFurlong91]

Cannon was following Energumene which clearly didn't work out well in view of how poorly he ran. March will be a different race again. All to play for yet.

He was a good way off him though, had he been tracking just behind energumene he'd have been in a nice slot

[Lobos]

He was a good way off him though, had he been tracking just behind energumene he'd have been in a nice slot

Good job he did it today as opposed to March . Hopefully he's learnt his lesson.

[Outlaw]

I must be the only one a bit disappointed Edward didn't manage to stay in front once he did after the last. I can understand the pov about him looking to beat Energumene and let the winner get a few lengths further in front than ideal, but I think he was going about as quick as he could given the finishing speeds the winner (slow finish% 2 out). EDG has gone hard up top but thought Edward would win 1-2L after jumping the last as the business end of his 2m are very good.

[Lobos]

Think most would agree Outlaw. Felt Eddie might have been short on fitness today as well. Only had one proper run this season so today should have brought him on lovely. He'll be ready come March.

[AaronLad]

I must be the only one a bit disappointed Edward didn't manage to stay in front once he did after the last. I can understand the pov about him looking to beat Energumene and let the winner get a few lengths further in front than ideal, but I think he was going about as quick as he could given the finishing speeds the winner (slow finish% 2 out). EDG has gone hard up top but thought Edward would win 1-2L after jumping the last as the business end of his 2m are very good.

It's important to remember a horse like editeur de guite does the damage in the early part of the race.
I thought at the time you underestimated EDG with your analysis of the wayward lad and desert orchid at xmas. You missed out the most important part of his race the start.
you're now disappointed with edwardstone for not managing to stay in front, but he had used extra energy to catch up.
EDG run's the finish out of other horses from the very start of his races, that's why I think it is important when analysing his races to start from flag fall or as close as can be reasonably expected, which was why i think we disagreed at xmas.

maybe i'm interpreting it wrong but it appears to me you might not be giving full credit to what EDG has done to these top 2 milers very early on in yesterday's race, He's taken them completely out of there comfort zone and ran their usual finishes out of them. I don't think it's a coincidence edwardstone unseated at xmas and didn't look comfortable at yesterday's early pace either. Yes edwardstone got his head in front but was EDG idling a bit on the run in? He'll try the same in march and the others won't underestimate him this time but they'll still need to beat him.
I hope this post comes across how it is intended, which is to find out if you're still underestimating EDG?
Edit; Just to highlight my point take a look at the advantage he already has at the 2nd fence over the eventual runner up edwardstone, must be 5 lengths?

[Carnage at Taunton]

Think most would agree Outlaw. Felt Eddie might have been short on fitness today as well. Only had one proper run this season so today should have brought him on lovely. He'll be ready come March.

Yep, that’s my thoughts too.
But I ain’t underestimating EDG.
Think we are in for a cracking top level 2m chase.
Now that’s exciting!!

[Outlaw]

It's important to remember a horse like editeur de guite does the damage in the early part of the race.
I thought at the time you underestimated EDG with your analysis of the wayward lad and desert orchid at xmas. You missed out the most important part of his race the start.
you're now disappointed with edwardstone for not managing to stay in front, but he had used extra energy to catch up.
EDG run's the finish out of other horses from the very start of his races, that's why I think it is important when analysing his races to start from flag fall or as close as can be reasonably expected, which was why i think we disagreed at xmas.

maybe i'm interpreting it wrong but it appears to me you might not be giving full credit to what EDG has done to these top 2 milers very early on in yesterday's race, He's taken them completely out of there comfort zone and ran their usual finishes out of them. I don't think it's a coincidence edwardstone unseated at xmas and didn't look comfortable at yesterday's early pace either. Yes edwardstone got his head in front but was EDG idling a bit on the run in? He'll try the same in march and the others won't underestimate him this time but they'll still need to beat him.
I hope this post comes across how it is intended, which is to find out if you're still underestimating EDG?
Edit; Just to highlight my point take a look at the advantage he already has at the 2nd fence over the eventual runner up edwardstone, must be 5 lengths?

I know how he races and am I guilty of not giving him enough credit yes that's fair but the Wayward Lad was easy enough to crab imo, Edward Fell,Nube didn't run to his mark and all comparisons said he went off too hard but nothing was there to pick up the pieces.

Yday was a much better run and deserves credit I'll be the first to admit I didn't think he could do that to those pair. Again he's gone off quick(hence the %finishing reference) but I stand by what I said, Edward is going about as quick as he could until 2 out but from jumping the last still a bit disappointed he hasn't gone past with how strong a finisher he is at the trip.

[AaronLad]

I know how he races and am I guilty of not giving him enough credit yes that's fair but the Wayward Lad was easy enough to crab imo, Edward Fell,Nube didn't run to his mark and all comparisons said he went off too hard but nothing was there to pick up the pieces.

Yday was a much better run and deserves credit I'll be the first to admit I didn't think he could do that to those pair. Again he's gone off quick(hence the %finishing reference) but I stand by what I said, Edward is going about as quick as he could until 2 out but from jumping the last still a bit disappointed he hasn't gone past with how strong a finisher he is at the trip.

Yeah I didn't think he could do that either I certainly underestimated him before yesterday.
I think edwardstone will be closer to EDG in the CC, and i think this will put his jumping under immense pressure which he won't handle.
Can Energumene take him on for the lead and beat him?
Really interesting race and wish I was on EDG at a nice price but won't be getting involved at his current price, if he drifts to double figures on the day though I won't be underestimating him again.

[opatcho]

I must be the only one a bit disappointed Edward didn't manage to stay in front once he did after the last. I can understand the pov about him looking to beat Energumene and let the winner get a few lengths further in front than ideal, but I think he was going about as quick as he could given the finishing speeds the winner (slow finish% 2 out). EDG has gone hard up top but thought Edward would win 1-2L after jumping the last as the business end of his 2m are very good.

I wouldnt be

Eddie had to cover so much ground to get to EdG, that in itself was impressive.

Cannon will have learnt a lot from that. I also expect the horse to come on aswell, he's a horse that needs runs.

EdG has shown his hand now. Very similar to Flooring Porter.
All of the trainers and jockeys now know where the danger is. Its from from the mid or rear of the field, its the one at the front

Mullin's could throw in a front running horse to unset EdG. Cannon yesterday would have been keep tabs on Energumene - on similar conditions he'll switch to keeping tabs on EdG

Yesterday's results was just what we needed, a shake up of the race and also the market. The Queen Mother has its new Special Teira - a proper pace maker and a horse that can easily win the race if the field doesnt give him enough respect.

So looking forward to the QMCC. I hope Blue Lord wins impressively next weekend, he could go off favourite for the QM!!!

[Quevega]

I must be the only one a bit disappointed Edward didn't manage to stay in front once he did after the last. I can understand the pov about him looking to beat Energumene and let the winner get a few lengths further in front than ideal, but I think he was going about as quick as he could given the finishing speeds the winner (slow finish% 2 out). EDG has gone hard up top but thought Edward would win 1-2L after jumping the last as the business end of his 2m are very good.

I think it's fractions mate.
Obviously EDG is of similar ability which most didn't think so before the race.

But turning in - and as they get racing in behind, Edwardstone is 7-8 lengths back (I was looking at the distance to Energumene myself (which was half that), and I'm sure Cannon was too)
Jumping the second last he's still about 6 lengths down on the winner, and jumping the last 1-2 lengths down, he lands running and goes past and just ties up a little bit.
The effort to make that ground from the third last to jumping the last has cost him the race on this occasion.

To beat the FAV, it was a perfect ride, they just didn't expect the winner to hang on. So was a bad ride in that respect.

Next time he has to sit nearer the pace, unless he thinks they're going too hard, but this obviously depends on his jumping on the day and traffic problems etc.
Either of the three or four could win the next day, it may depend on small things and jockeys.
But I'd say Edwardstone would win on balance on everything we've seen.

I'm not sure Energumene has any real excuses as he looked beat jumping the last and had travelled like the winner all the way.
I think most made at least one or 2 scruffy jumps.

Guessing on how fit any of them were is just that, - guessing.

[Istabraq]

I know it's a bog standard argument that can get rolled out but that ground would have been horribly tacky yesterday, literally covered for a week, it looked horrible but I haven't seen any jockey comments so I could be offside here...