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JackieMoon33 Given your expertise in the PTP field do you plan doing a champion bumper preview/summary of those horses coming from that field ?
I think plenty in here would find it useful....
I'd disagree that it's 'expertise'. For every Final Demand on my list there is a lot of muck to go with him
I can take a look nearer the time but a the more time I invest in looking into P2Ps, the more I realise that it's incredibly hit and miss as to how those P2P performances play out on the track, especially in bumpers.
I'd disagree that it's 'expertise'. For every Final Demand on my list there is a lot of muck to go with him
I can take a look nearer the time but a the more time I invest in looking into P2Ps, the more I realise that it's incredibly hit and miss as to how those P2P performances play out on the track, especially in bumpers.
It's a level of knowledge that others could certainly benefit from so if you are able to do something I'm sure a few will be grateful...
I'd disagree that it's 'expertise'. For every Final Demand on my list there is a lot of muck to go with him
I can take a look nearer the time but a the more time I invest in looking into P2Ps, the more I realise that it's incredibly hit and miss as to how those P2P performances play out on the track, especially in bumpers.
Would you have a selection process in order of preference for what you look for? Eye test over breeding, or p2p form over both, for example?
I know you use the eye test more than me, I've tried including it more into my selection process but would still have breeding ahead in terms of priority for me, for all that you'll get plenty of outliers on the breeding front, too.
Would you have a selection process in order of preference for what you look for? Eye test over breeding, or p2p form over both, for example?
I know you use the eye test more than me, I've tried including it more into my selection process but would still have breeding ahead in terms of priority for me, for all that you'll get plenty of outliers on the breeding front, too.
I'd go for the money spent test myself.
They must have a better idea, if they're spending that sort of dough most seasons.
But even that will be hit and miss as Jackie said.
Whether visually or financially, you're still guessing as to how their career will pan out.
Just like the purchases from France.
It's better to be aware of them and then weigh them up on the track. IMO
Probably makes much more sense to take shorter prices after performances under rules than speculating before that.
Obviously cash out and other incentives like NRNB allows some speculation.
Would you have a selection process in order of preference for what you look for? Eye test over breeding, or p2p form over both, for example?
I know you use the eye test more than me, I've tried including it more into my selection process but would still have breeding ahead in terms of priority for me, for all that you'll get plenty of outliers on the breeding front, too.
Tough to put those elements in order of preference as I'm usually looking at them all to form an opinion. In some cases there will be elements missing so I'll have to choose whether to ignore them or not. Some horses made it on my P2P list based on performance over pedigree but some I marked up a slightly lower performance as they had a decent pedigree.
1. Eye test.
I don't blindly go for wide margin winners, in fact I think those races are often overrated. I usually prefer horses that are in behind and have the class to win by showing some speed at the finish. Times and ground conditions are factored in to this assessment. It can be too easy to chase the fast times, but if the horse I like was held up, he's at the mercy of the horse leading so it's less relevant.
2. Pedigree.
Adds some substance to the eye test and the likelihood that the performance will be backed up in the future. I have some sires I would usually steer clear of and some that I'm a big fan of, but it's not always black and white. Some on my lists have lovely pedigrees and some aren't anything to write home about.
3. Depth of race.
This is based on the horses that run as opposed to subsequent form. For instance, if I see lot's of the big handlers and owners with runners in the same race then there is better chance that the winner will prove decent. There are also some tracks and races that I focus on, not too dissimilar to race trends under rules. My lists are compiled before there is any real form to consider anyway and often P2P form can prove meaningless anyway. Funnily enough, Korkoran is a good example of this. The form of his P2P is absolutely gash but at the time he made my list, there was nothing to go on.
4. Media snippets / Social Media / DMs etc
If I see a performance I like then I start to go digging for more information. Most handlers will talk up a horse as they're in the sales business, but sometimes there is the odd comment that can help to put real meat on the bone.
Last edited by JackieMoon33; 7 February 2025, 12:08 PM.
I'd go for the money spent test myself.
They must have a better idea, if they're spending that sort of dough most seasons.
But even that will be hit and miss as Jackie said.
Whether visually or financially, you're still guessing as to how their career will pan out.
Just like the purchases from France.
It's better to be aware of them and then weigh them up on the track. IMO
Probably makes much more sense to take shorter prices after performances under rules than speculating before that.
Obviously cash out and other incentives like NRNB allows some speculation.
Korkoran (from the 4yo P2P list) has been declared in the bumper at Exeter on Sunday. After what Mossy Fen Road did for the same connections a week ago, I'd be hopeful he can put up a good performance as he'd be the sharper of the two. Regardless of being on my list, I hope he goes well to back up the faith that the owners have in sending these pricey P2P recruits to young Harry. It's good for UK racing to have another trainer being backed and receiving decent ammunition.
Derryhassen Paddy has the entry in the Grade 2 3m at Haydock on Saturday, as mentioned post-race. There are some experienced rivals entered with reasonable form but he'd have to be beating them to have festival aspirations.
Derryhassen Paddy has the entry in the Grade 2 3m at Haydock on Saturday, as mentioned post-race. There are some experienced rivals entered with reasonable form but he'd have to be beating them to have festival aspirations.
Derryhassen Paddy has the entry in the Grade 2 3m at Haydock on Saturday, as mentioned post-race. There are some experienced rivals entered with reasonable form but he'd have to be beating them to have festival aspirations.
Derryhassen Paddy has the entry in the Grade 2 3m at Haydock on Saturday, as mentioned post-race. There are some experienced rivals entered with reasonable form but he'd have to be beating them to have festival aspirations.
Paddy declared as expected. One of the main rivals didn't stand his ground so it's a little easier. Festival aspirations on the line for Paddy but I think he's up to it again.
Paddy declared as expected. One of the main rivals didn't stand his ground so it's a little easier. Festival aspirations on the line for Paddy but I think he's up to it again.
….they clearly love the horse, I’m happy to have him at 100-1 AB but I’d like a price on him for next years BANC, especially if not going to this years Festival.
Paddy declared as expected. One of the main rivals didn't stand his ground so it's a little easier. Festival aspirations on the line for Paddy but I think he's up to it again.
Good luck with this one.
Battle born lad in there, he defeated wendigo(Challow 2nd) at hexham over 2 miles, he's been off since then, October. First run back they're stepping him right up to 3miles. An interesting runner.
Good luck with this one.
Battle born lad in there, he defeated wendigo(Challow 2nd) at hexham over 2 miles, he's been off since then, October. First run back they're stepping him right up to 3miles. An interesting runner.
There are a few bits and pieces of form in there for sure. But if Paddy can’t put these away then he’s no place lining up at the festival.
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