The ULTIMA Handicap Steeplechase

[JackieMoon33]

I can see how he runs, that's not a problem, I understand how it looks, but seen plenty over the years that look like this, then don't actually get the step up in trip. There's more proof he's better over the intermediate trip than the staying trip.

When were these quotes? Before Kempton?

Strange how King has said he looks likely to go elsewhere and not the Ultima now!

I'd say how he runs is the problem. You can't get 'outpaced and stay on' in a top tier handicap chases over 2m4f when the others won't be stopping.

It's a simple one really. He's either a horse that could improve in the Ultima or he'd be a no bet for me in the Jack Richards. If he doesn't improve for the step up then he's not good enough over the intermediate trip either.

"Quotes below after his debut at Newbury defeat by The Jukebox Man."
So before Kempton, not after. If those confusing recent quotes are accurate, it seems like he may have changed his tune though.

[Rooster Booster]

"Es Perfecto is in the Plate and the novice handicap chase along with Masaccio, who is also in the Ultima but is more likely to run somewhere else."

Did you miss this? He was talking about Es Perfecto early on then switches to Masaccio!

Why are you bothering he obviously enjoys it more in lobos land and maybe he’s got a point

[Quevega]

Definitely a blue dress / green dress kind of sentence IMO.

[ComplyOrDie]

"Quotes below after his debut at Newbury defeat by The Jukebox Man."
So before Kempton, not after.

I'd say how he runs is the problem. You can't get 'outpaced and stay on' in a top tier handicap chases over 2m4f when the others won't be stopping.

It's a simple one really. He's either a horse that could improve in the Ultima or he'd be a no bet for me in the Jack Richards. If he doesn't improve for the step up then he's not good enough over the intermediate trip either.

That's fair enough. I'm very much of the opinion he wouldn't get the trip in the Ultima. I think he'd go closer in a Jack Richards, especially with the weight swing with the fav, who I also think has a big chance. That said, I see he is also in the Plate, he is 8 (thought he was younger), so they may chuck him in there instead. Probably not many novices qualified as normal for that race either.

[ComplyOrDie]

Why are you bothering he obviously enjoys it more in lobos land and maybe he’s got a point

I've given up now, don't worry.

[Lobos]

I've given up now, don't worry.

.....and me. As we were.....

[Lobos]

Definitely a blue dress / green dress kind of sentence IMO.

Exactly that. Have to be very careful.

[Rooster Booster]

Definitely a blue dress / green dress kind of sentence IMO.

Yes it is ambiguous. I wonder if they’d charge less for ambiguity

[Quevega]

The gamble on the French horse for this is a concern.
Makes me wonder if someone knows it's been given a mark based on the French rating.
Even though it's ran over here under rules in the betfair chase.
I hope they're fucking wrong.

[Exar Essay]

The gamble on the French horse for this is a concern.
Makes me wonder if someone knows it's been given a mark based on the French rating.
Even though it's ran over here under rules in the betfair chase.
I hope they're fucking wrong.

Maybe it's the Naiad ...

[darlojim]

Maybe it's the Naiad ...

If it is, then the price for him has long gone imo

And trusting a FR jock outside of the big 2/3 3m around the old course at Chelt would be v high risk imo

[Odin]

The gamble on the French horse for this is a concern.
Makes me wonder if someone knows it's been given a mark based on the French rating.
Even though it's ran over here under rules in the betfair chase.
I hope they're fucking wrong.

OR at Haydock was 138 according to Racing Post
Performance rating was 148 according to BHA

Would be weird (lazy even?) if his chase mark was a stone lower than his hurdles mark of 156 though...

[Quevega]

OR at Haydock was 138 according to Racing Post
Performance rating was 148 according to BHA

Would be weird (lazy even?) if his chase mark was a stone lower than his hurdles mark of 156 though...

Yeah, i'd looked that up when I spotted money coming early in the week.

And I Agree.

His French conversion mark over fences would be 138, and hopefully that is people thinking that's what he might get, and not reality.
Price has shortened a lot though.

[Lobos]

Maybe it's the Naiad ...

Would definitely fit the 'curve ball' description that Spectre alluded to. As Darlo says, if it is then the decent odds have gone gone already.

[Quevega]

I expect the curve ball might be a different race.
3 new ones this year