The CORAL CUP Handicap Hurdle

[Nathaniel99999]

It's that people think she's better than 140.

Finest Evermore is 137 in Ireland, so may well be rated even closer to her if they met over here...


I'm guessing you'd have Finest Evermore an odds on shot to beat her in a match?


I don't know how much Finest Evermore has in hand (obviously), but no real strong reason to think she's not been trying the last two runs...so her rating must be fairly accurate?



I think she's a good and interest shout by the way... I'd take a proper look if she was entered.

Honestly I would put a bet on "Finest evermore" to beat Marie's rock in this race on a match bet if there was one I'm that confident, I'm keeping an eye on this horse closely because it had its first run for a year, comes 4th in a decent race and giving 3lbs to Heaven help us, running on 2m 5f looked like it could do better. I think maybe on the day if the British handicapper is kind it may get 142 or 143 on the day, I think it still will have 2 or 3lbs in hand to better its mark. Plus the only race I can see this horse racing is here or the Mares, and I don't think it will win the Mares but it would have a much better chance here than any. I got it at 12/1 on Williamhill. I'm hoping it gets one last run before it runs at Cheltenham if that is the plan and to enter here.

[Kevloaf]

Honestly I would put a bet on "Finest evermore" to beat Marie's rock in this race on a match bet if there was one I'm that confident, I'm keeping an eye on this horse closely because it had its first run for a year, comes 4th in a decent race and giving 3lbs to Heaven help us, running on 2m 5f looked like it could do better. I think maybe on the day if the British handicapper is kind it may get 142 or 143 on the day, I think it still will have 2 or 3lbs in hand to better its mark. Plus the only race I can see this horse racing is here or the Mares, and I don't think it will win the Mares but it would have a much better chance here than any. I got it at 12/1 on Williamhill. I'm hoping it gets one last run before it runs at Cheltenham if that is the plan and to enter here.

Yeha, all fair enough. Horse that's been on my radar before... I'd want to see the entry and a bigger price than 12s myself but plenty of time for that.

Tag me in if you see anything @ ... as it's the kind of thread I'll miss

[Spectre]

To win a Coral Cup a horse needs to have closer to a stone in hand on it's mark. If your assessment is that Finest Evermore has 2 or 3lbs in hand she won't be winning. She may have more of course.

As for Maries Rock Henderson thought she could be a Champion Hurdle horse but they couldn't get her to settle. They seem to have solved the problem now and I suspect she's improving fast. The attraction with her is that now she does settle she's bred to appreciate the step up from 2 miles and it's likely to bring out further improvement. And how good does Henderson think she can be if she was earmarked for the Champion Hurdle. 140 could be very lenient if he's right.

If she'd have won at the weekend she may well have blown her mark or at least made it more difficult, but it's interesting that they were prepared to run her on her merits and still think she'd come to the Coral Cup with a chance. Given she had her race ruined by the faller she could be thrown in, and I'm very surprised that the bookies think she should be a longer price for the Coral Cup than she was before the race on Saturday, when she'll go there with a better chance of winning it because of the way her race panned out.

[Benjy23]

If she'd have won at the weekend she may well have blown her mark or at least made it more difficult, but it's interesting that they were prepared to run her on her merits and still think she'd come to the Coral Cup with a chance. Given she had her race ruined by the faller she could be thrown in, and I'm very surprised that the bookies think she should be a longer price for the Coral Cup than she was before the race on Saturday, when she'll go there with a better chance of winning it because of the way her race panned out.

Thought I'd heard/read she was going to the Mares, which was why they didn't mind running in the Lanzarote before and blowing her mark. Now that's not happened though the Coral Cup must surely come back into the picture.

[Lbur4288]

Thought I'd heard/read she was going to the Mares, which was why they didn't mind running in the Lanzarote before and blowing her mark. Now that's not happened though the Coral Cup must surely come back into the picture.

Connections said they'd run the Lanzarote with a view of the Mares Hurdle if that went well and if not they'd look at something else.

I have said a lot similar to others in that I think she's ahead of her mark of 140 and following a similar path to Dame de Compagnie. If you have a look at the market for the Coral Cup you can immediately take a lot out as they'll either go elsewhere or the race is just unlikely to be workable with the marks they have. This is also a race that mares do well in with the aforementioned DDC and Heaven Help Us winning the last two. I honestly thought Marie's Rock was a standout bet at 20s so to be pushed out to 33s is even better and I'm prepared to have a go before NRNB.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Connections said they'd run the Lanzarote with a view of the Mares Hurdle if that went well and if not they'd look at something else.

I have said a lot similar to others in that I think she's ahead of her mark of 140 and following a similar path to Dame de Compagnie. If you have a look at the market for the Coral Cup you can immediately take a lot out as they'll either go elsewhere or the race is just unlikely to be workable with the marks they have. This is also a race that mares do well in with the aforementioned DDC and Heaven Help Us winning the last two. I honestly thought Marie's Rock was a standout bet at 20s so to be pushed out to 33s is even better and I'm prepared to have a go before NRNB.

Yeah I thought that before nrnb, but because of the way it all happened on Saturday I would not be surprised if she had another entry before Cheltenham , provided all is well with her.

[ComplyOrDie]

Really don't get the hype of Marie's Rock, I just don't think the horse would win this, I think theres plenty of horses that would beat her in this. Only horse I'm hoping that would be entered for this is "Finest evermore". I've asked several betting companies to request a price and none of them have wanted to which I find weird. Managed to only get the market to win any race on Williamhill.

I like Finest Evermore, but I was surprised to see her at just 16/1 for the race. I don't think this is that great a price, tbh.

[Lbur4288]

Yeah I thought that before nrnb, but because of the way it all happened on Saturday I would not be surprised if she had another entry before Cheltenham , provided all is well with her.

Quite possibly, I don't think they're all in on Cheltenham and could find another decent handicap pot somewhere but I'm hoping not because her mark is definitely attractive for this.

[Rooster Booster]

Folks just take a step back and remove your (understandable)Cheltenham handicap plot goggles for a second. Spectre is right at one point they thought they had a potential champion hurdler on their hands. A lesser alternative like the county for example was not a preferred option.

Connections have had rotten luck with her so far and have needed to be very patient. Her win at Kempton gave us a glimpse of why she was held in such high regard.

The lanzarote was a big pot and we have already been told on here that her performance in the lanzarote would likely define the balance of her season. Yet again luck was not on her side and she couldn’t show us what she has. I am struggling to understand why connections would change their thinking now and hold her back for a handicap when A) they presumably still want to see if she is better than that and B) her running style is such that she will always be a hostage to fortune in a large runner handicap.

I accept that it may suit our desire to latch on to a well handicapped horse but we have been told that the owners understandably want to know if they have a graded horse on their hands or not. Constantly hoping for trouble free passages in 20+ runner handicaps would not be the smartest way to establish that imo.

[ComplyOrDie]

Folks just take a step back and remove your (understandable)Cheltenham handicap plot goggles for a second. Spectre is right at one point they thought they had a potential champion hurdler on their hands. A lesser alternative like the county for example was not a preferred option.

But they don't have a potential Champion Hurdler, do they? Far from it in fact. I'm sure many have the dream of having a potential Champion Hurdler, especially when they win their first couple of races, but it seldom happens, so I'm not sure what them thinking what they had matters tbh.

She's won a handicap by 7 lengths off 131, and suddenly she is now a Grade 1 Mares Hurdle option for the festival. Sorry, I'm not buying that.

She could potentially still be well in off 140, especially as she is unexposed at the trip (applies to the Mares Hurdle trip too). The Coral Cup is still a G3, and there is ?8k difference in prize money in favour of the Mares Hurdle, from winning either.

It is, of course, just my opinion, but I think she'd have a proper chance of a Cheltenham Festival win in this race, and only a small E/W chance in the Mares Hurdle.

[Rooster Booster]

But they don't have a potential Champion Hurdler, do they? Far from it in fact. I'm sure many have the dream of having a potential Champion Hurdler, especially when they win their first couple of races, but it seldom happens, so I'm not sure what them thinking what they had matters tbh.

She's won a handicap by 7 lengths off 131, and suddenly she is now a Grade 1 Mares Hurdle option for the festival. Sorry, I'm not buying that.

She could potentially still be well in off 140, especially as she is unexposed at the trip (applies to the Mares Hurdle trip too). The Coral Cup is still a G3, and there is ?8k difference in prize money in favour of the Mares Hurdle, from winning either.

It is, of course, just my opinion, but I think she'd have a proper chance of a Cheltenham Festival win in this race, and only a small E/W chance in the Mares Hurdle.

No they don’t ...it was just back story information to provide folks with some previous context around how highly they rated her and how they historically saw her as better than a handicapper. My intention with my post was to try and stress that we had already been told on this forum that they were trying to level set her to gauge what route to take with her moving forward and that I couldn’t see why that wouldn’t still be their intention as the lanzarote told them nothing. I was not commenting on whether she is suddenly a Grade 1 horse or not merely just reminding folks of what we had been told in case folks had forgotten.

if you and others believe they no longer want to level set, as, having seen the Lanzarote, they have now accepted she is not up to mares hurdle standard then that is your perogative and you may well be right and I wish you luck.

[ComplyOrDie]

No they don’t ...it was just back story information to provide folks with some previous context around how highly they rated her and how they historically saw her as better than a handicapper. My intention with my post was to try and stress that we had already been told on this forum that they were trying to level set her to gauge what route to take with her moving forward and that I couldn’t see why that wouldn’t still be their intention as the lanzarote told them nothing. I was not commenting on whether she is suddenly a Grade 1 horse or not merely just reminding folks of what we had been told in case folks had forgotten.

if you and others believe they no longer want to level set, as, having seen the Lanzarote, they have now accepted she is not up to mares hurdle standard then that is your perogative and you may well be right and I wish you luck.

OK, I do get your point about the Lanzarote not changing anything.

It may have been a 'timing thing between races' but if they were thinking Mares Hurdle why not take on the Mares in the listed race at Sandown a week before, or, and they may still go down this route, the Yorkshire Rose Mares Hurdle at Doncaster end of January or beginning of February (not sure what day it is). Instead, you would have to assume they felt she was still well in to take part in the Lanzarote, in which case, she would still remain well in as her mark isn't changing after the performance in the race, this leading me to the Coral Cup.

It ties in with Nicky's historical performance in the race, and the fact Mares and have won the last two. They have room to exploit her handicap mark still, so it makes sense to me.

[Carnage at Taunton]

Quite possibly, I don't think they're all in on Cheltenham and could find another decent handicap pot somewhere but I'm hoping not because her mark is definitely attractive for this.

I think it’s possible they have not given up on the Mares as that was unsatisfactory on Saturday. They may try and give her another chance to convince them to go for it?
I dunno like anyone else but it has been their goal this season by the sounds of it.
So I’m personally holding any bets until nrnb.

[Lbur4288]

I think it’s possible they have not given up on the Mares as that was unsatisfactory on Saturday. They may try and give her another chance to convince them to go for it?
I dunno like anyone else but it has been their goal this season by the sounds of it.
So I’m personally holding any bets until nrnb.

https://www.skysports.com/racing/news/12426/12513229/nicky-hendersons-maries-rock-returns-to-kempton-park-for-lanzarote-hurdle

This article from earlier this month does say she will get the Mares Hurdle entry and "probably" go down that route. I fully expect the entry to remain the case but I've no doubt Nicky Henderson will be looking at a few potential avenues. I did have another article where Middleham PR mentioned her targeting the mares if the Lanzarote went well enough or some black type if not. That appears to have vanished now although I'll do my best to find it - it was that article that made me have a more in depth look at her for the Coral Cup. I absolutely don't blame you holding out for NRNB.

[Quevega]

They obviously think she is well handicapped so usually trainers like to confirm this before stepping up to graded 1 level.
Get a big handicap and a rise under her belt then on to graded company was the plan.
I don't see why this would change, but they may just throw her into the mares if they think it's a weak looking renewal and there is no race/handicap beforehand.
At the moment I'd consider backing her for the Coral Cup, but not for the mares. FWIW.
I think she may be well handicapped but I'm not convinced she definitely is. The handicap she won was a bit shit and a line through commanche red raises doubts.