General Chat

[Hurricane fly]

My case (not argument) is economic, not one of feeling or emotion. We can agree to disagree but yes, let's leave it there.

Sorry to hash up a possibly finished topic, but

From an economic point of view you are correct in the additional pressures the festival undoubtedly brings, however I would say it's a bit of a narrow view, no consideration for the fact that food and drink can benefit from economies of scale, as will overheads which on the whole stay the same so cost per drink impact diminishes aswell. I would also feel incredibly confident in saying drinks per customer at a race day vs a snooker event is miles apart so while you can squeeze more out of people from a cost perspective the volume of sales and profit per sale would almost certainly cover the costs of additional staffing.

As for the paying for things such as the new stand and more importantly the new toilet block - well received by everyone I think! - since they opened in 2015 the attendance - for the festival alone - has risen from 248k to 280k last year so a 13% increase while ticket prices have risen 11% (based on early bird Club tickets). So revenue from tickets to the festival alone have gone 25% in the space of 7 years. An increase using those prices of between ?8-10m, I appreciate everyone doesn't use Club but everyone also doesn't buy early bird purely from 4 days attendance a year. Hospitality has also increased in size and cost aswell.


The gripe people have is one mirrored around the country in all sectors, but from a fan perspective it is that the bottom line is being favoured over fan experience thus costing out your average day to day fan in favour of people out for a one off occasion.

I also think there is also a wider concern about the handling of race courses in general which Cheltenham booze prizes personifies, Cheltenham - and to an extent Aintree - are outliers because of March and April, but every other race course seems to be making the exact same moves with regards to pricing of tickets and F&D despite a general downturn in attendance. It appears the people running the racecourses would rather take ?50 upfront from 20 rather than ?30 from 30 people, ignoring the trickle down benefits of the increased spend at vendors etc. Locally for me Chester race course was visibly empty this year vs pre pandemic and even last year, but prices continue to rise. It builds a greater concern for the future of the sport, to me atleast. The most cost efficient way to run an event doesn't necessitate it is the most profitable, something I wonder is possibly lost on racecourses taking cautious approaches.

Personally I think I've gone to the festival for the last time for a while, I've been costing up a DRF trip for both days and it comes in the same as 1 day at the festival and significantly cheaper than 2, and I don't even pay accom for the fez! Maybe I'll have a horror story and run back to the festival with my tail between my legs

[charlie]

From an economic point of view you are correct in the additional pressures the festival undoubtedly brings, however I would say it's a bit of a narrow view, no consideration for the fact that food and drink can benefit from economies of scale, as will overheads which on the whole stay the same so cost per drink impact diminishes aswell.

You've put a lot of thought into your post which I appreciate and you make some good points (not copied all just for sake of saving space).

I hear what you are saying about pint price representing wider issues when it comes the race day value, its a good point, but they are simply charging what people will pay.

Prices are rising across racing because prices are rising everywhere. Inflation is taking hold and race courses and vendors have to pass their increased costs and reduced margins on to the consumer. It is a worrying shift, and we haven't even talked about the long lasting impact of covid.

I agree that smaller courses charging more for beer is counter productive because it will have a meaningful impact on the number of people that go racing and all you say, the trickle down spend.

That obviously doesn't apply to Cheltenham where they charge 7.50 a pint because they are guaranteed hundreds of thousands of people who will pay it.

I don't think it's particularly helpful for the industry to use Cheltenham and the price of pints at Cheltenham as the sort of flag bearing case that racing is becoming less and less affordable.

[Carnage at Taunton]

At Sandown 2 or 3 years ago, some bloke walking round with some machine producing gnats piss aka Fosters for ?6 a pint.
Saw a few buying , kind of sums up what a rip off it can be, and some of the people going racing!!

[Quevega]

Excellent post from the fly, again.
Pretty much what I said but all costed out.

Also interesting that charlie thinks the festival is guaranteed great attendances. I think short term this is probably correct.
However,
If people like myself who have been going for 20 years aren't going and people like the fly, then somethings not right.
When I started going we used to go in a minibus with about 15 of us, for 3 or 4 days.

This dwindled to 3 of us just for the Tuesday for the last few years, and this year it's just the chuckle brothers and I know they've not yet booked the train or got tickets so we'll see.
This reduction was for similar reasons over the years as discussed - But it's been getting worse.
And I accept some of the reasoning for this, I just think they're stretching it, as their profits will show.

This sort of thing will eventually impact the festival as they cannot rely on the younger first time goers crowd to maintain their interest as many first time goers will not return. And the impact on racing in general is not great as when I first got the bug, it meant I was interested in going to all sorts of race meetings. If people are put off by the experience then that's less likely.

The biggest show in town needs to look after the little shows, or eventually the whole Town's in the shit.
Basically if Cheltenham keeps taking the piss and the profits, all racing will suffer.

The last thing the sport needs is for the festival to become a tourist attraction like the temple bar pub, where once is enough.

[opatcho]

I cant not see myself going to the Festival in the near future. Havent been since Covid struck
Today will be my first trip back to the course, and thats only because the card looks great and I think the will be a proper racing crowd there today
I'll be driving down, wont spend a dollar on food or drink

?30 for today, its good value for a 9 race card
?100 per day for the festival, no thank you!

Used to have some mates that came down for the festival. I had a season ticket at the time, so didnt experience the 'full whack' of buying tickets for the festival... it actually sadden me hearing from them "yeah, this is our holiday...", and it was, the 4 day event cost them close to a grand (tickets, travel, food, drink etc).

I used to recommend the festival to anyone who showed interest in horse racing.
Now... I dont. I tell them to go down on New Years day and enjoy the day and experience there. I know it cheap, the atmosphere is great, you can move around freely, you get some competitive races and its a fun way to experience the New Year.

Its sad. I miss going to the festival, but lost interest now. Rather sit at home and watch it, and focus on attending other courses/fixtures during the year

[Hurricane fly]

I would disagree with that to be fair Q, the focus on Cheltenham has made it the ultimate day out. A couple of years ago I saw an article that stated Cheltenham was the slowest week "in the city" / trading wise outside of Christmas the root cause being people take it off to attend. Perhaps harsh but I doubt most of the LSE aren't watching for entries at Down Royal in November or going to Haydock in January. Racing twitter loves to poke fun at the "no socks brigade" but their money counts the same as mine or yours.

As the move from sporting event to day out progresses the importance of the racing dwindles. At the end of the day as long as people on tv in newspapers say Cheltenham is the pinnacle 90% of the country will believe they are watching the very best.

[Quevega]

I would disagree with that to be fair Q, the focus on Cheltenham has made it the ultimate day out. A couple of years ago I saw an article that stated Cheltenham was the slowest week "in the city" / trading wise outside of Christmas the root cause being people take it off to attend. Perhaps harsh but I doubt most of the LSE aren't watching for entries at Down Royal in November or going to Haydock in January. Racing twitter loves to poke fun at the "no socks brigade" but their money counts the same as mine or yours.

As the move from sporting event to day out progresses the importance of the racing dwindles. At the end of the day as long as people on tv in newspapers say Cheltenham is the pinnacle 90% of the country will believe they are watching the very best.

Yeah, the day out thing will go so far, but long term will not be good for the sport, which is at the core of this particular day out.

It may take a while for the lag to take effect, but it will, unless they take action to retain the people who go mainly for the sport.
Even if Cheltenham peaks for the longest, the surrounding courses and sport in general will suffer and It will eventually come back to roost.

It's a risky strategy for a sport or any business to disenfranchise loyal supporters in favour of being able to consistently bring in corporate or social "day out" attendees.
The demographic of attendees should be as important as the numbers, or at least analysed.

But I suppose if they've done the figures and know the demand is massive for those not as into the Sport then so be it.
Be interesting to see if they sell out this year.

And we've not even discussed the competitiveness of the actual racing, that's another matter.

[Hurricane fly]

Sell outs should in theory be easier due to the attendance cap of 68k a day, they were 70+ Thurs and Fri last year so some demand can be pushed into Tuesday and Wednesday.

I 100% agree with you about the concerns for the other tracks though, the decision making is baffling, particularly as each course is run standalone so it isn't the jockey club saying we own 13 courses everyone needs to increase prices 10% YoY. I think simply raising prices is a very risk averse way of trying to increase revenue and stinks of short term planning. A long term plan of dropping prices but encouraging repeat visitors is surely the way to go for most courses. I would garner most people go to the races once a year, they (the powers that be) need to be looking to make that twice a year and cost does come into it.

[Rooster Booster]

Yeah, the day out thing will go so far, but long term will not be good for the sport, which is at the core of this particular day out.

It may take a while for the lag to take effect, but it will, unless they take action to retain the people who go mainly for the sport.
Even if Cheltenham peaks for the longest, the surrounding courses and sport in general will suffer and It will eventually come back to roost.

It's a risky strategy for a sport or any business to disenfranchise loyal supporters in favour of being able to consistently bring in corporate or social "day out" attendees.
The demographic of attendees should be as important as the numbers, or at least analysed.

But I suppose if they've done the figures and know the demand is massive for those not as into the Sport then so be it.
Be interesting to see if they sell out this year.

And we've not even discussed the competitiveness of the actual racing, that's another matter.

I’ve struggled at times with my own irrelevance, it’s a hard thing to come to terms with....we like to think that our own thoughts and feelings can be extrapolated to a wider audience and that they mean something somehow. That they are somehow relevant or representative and even portentous. I fear the reality is very much the opposite, things have a life and power of their own and they ebb and flow along with fashion or trends or whatever fickle power is at play. My advice to everyone, do what you want, want makes you happy, do not make yourself a martyr, because you don’t matter to anybody but yourself.....and stop worrying about all the things you cannot control.

[Quevega]

I’ve struggled at times with my own irrelevance, it’s a hard thing to come to terms with....we like to think that our own thoughts and feelings can be extrapolated to a wider audience and that they mean something somehow. That they are somehow relevant or representative and even portentous. I fear the reality is very much the opposite, things have a life and power of their own and they ebb and flow along with fashion or trends or whatever fickle power is at play. My advice to everyone, do what you want, want makes you happy, do not make yourself a martyr, because you don’t matter to anybody but yourself.....and stop worrying about all the things you cannot control.

Good stuff overall
Bit harsh surely most people have one person or animal at least
I've understood my own irrelevance for a long time. And agree with the overall sentiment.
Although I do think attempting to influence just one opinion can be seen as worthwhile. And for those that really make an effort to change things are far more worthy than a couch potato like myself.
Probably why I've never voted, except to remain. Which is very apt.

[Rooster Booster]

Good stuff overall
Bit harsh surely most people have one person or animal at least
I've understood my own irrelevance for a long time. And agree with the overall sentiment.
Although I do think attempting to influence just one opinion can be seen as worthwhile. And for those that really make an effort to change things are far more worthy than a couch potato like myself.
Probably why I've never voted, except to remain. Which is very apt.

I’ve never voted either and everybody tells me that makes me part of the problem ...they may well be right ...thankfully an exceptional torch bearer comes along every once in a while like ghandi, or MLK or whoever floats your personal boat and takes my sentiments and shoves them where the sun don’t shine....I lack the talent, courage, resilience and just about every other virtue to be that person and so I settle for humility and acceptance ...this will I hope allow me to still be in love with Cheltenham forever no matter what it becomes.

I should add, dogs are truly unconditional, we don’t deserve them

[Faugheen_Machine]

I'm surprised you'd back Gelino over Paisley Park

I'm a sucker for this type of horse.

[Quevega]

I’ve never voted either and everybody tells me that makes me part of the problem ...they may well be right ...thankfully an exceptional torch bearer comes along every once in a while like ghandi, or MLK or whoever floats your personal boat and takes my sentiments and shoves them where the sun don’t shine....I lack the talent, courage, resilience and just about every other virtue to be that person and so I settle for humility and acceptance ...this will I hope allow me to still be in love with Cheltenham forever no matter what it becomes.

I should add, dogs are truly unconditional, we don’t deserve them

A bigger problem than the abstainers - Is the stupid and/or selfish people who choose to vote - The combination of stupidity and selfishness will eventually end the human race.

Unless the Apathetical rise up.
Which is unlikely, in my case anyway. (and makes me stupid and selfish as well)

[Sprinter Sacre]

What could go wrong did go wrong with my bets today apart from the biggest odds of the lot with Rock My Way just winning at 5/1... one of those days. I think that means DRF will be the opposite

[Quevega]

What could go wrong did go wrong with my bets today apart from the biggest odds of the lot with Rock My Way just winning at 5/1... one of those days. I think that means DRF will be the opposite

Very similar story here.