General Chat

[Spectre]

I think this was mentioned on Road to Cheltenham but what do people think of having a long distance veterans chase (10-y-o or older) at the Festival?
I know there would be an issue of which race to replace but given the change in nature of the National Hunt chase (as a kind of second trial for future Gold Cup horses), I thought that could be the one as we already have a 3m novices chase called the Brown Advisory (former RSA)..
So a handicap for older horses over more than 3 miles with or without amateur riders?

I recall Ruby Walsh was against the idea and he made the comment along the lines that "the handicapper allows for the age of a horse" - that was news to me or was he just leg pulling?

I think it's a terrible idea. I'm not over-keen on them anyway, and to put one on at the Festival would be the biggest turn off imaginable.

There are a number of other things they need to sort out when thinking about how to expand the Festival, before they should even dream of messing around by adding races like this that have no place whatsoever.

Firstly the handicaps are now dominated by unexposed novices. There's a simple solution to that. Make novices ineligible. The by-product of doing so is it opens up the race to genuine handicappers, and pushes the novices back to the novice races where each season the field sizes are reducing.

Then by doing so it opens up the opportunity to expand the number of races by adding novice handicaps (0-145 or even 0-140), rather than non-entity veteran chases, or a 2 mile cross county race, or other such stupid ideas. Those horses rated higher than the handicap limit are now pushed towards the novice championship races if they want a run, which has the consequence of pushing field sizes back to acceptable levels in the graded races.

With those problems solved and longer-term evidence that the graded races are attracting fields and field sizes worthy of the name, a two and half mile championship hurdle could then be considered to fill the obvious gap. Right now though that really can't happen, despite it being an obvious move to mirror the chases.

I accept the inevitability of a 5 day Festival, and whilst I'd very much prefer not, I would accept it if there was a clearly thought out plan to add to the spectacle, and not to take away from it. And to use the move to solve some very obvious problems.

In addition to this I also have an issue with the mares allowance which is causing an obvious imbalance. Take Honeysuckle for example, who is perfectly capable of mixing it with the boys, with or without and allowance. Every times she wins a Grade 1 reduce her allowance by 2lbs, and if she wins a Grade 1 reduce it by a 1lb. That simple mechanism should be applied to all mares running in open graded races. Simple really, but seemingly beyond the collective brains that run horseracing to solve what is a very basic issue.

[Exar Essay]

Spectre I'd worry about a decreasing Mare's allowance. You could end up with the best mares being kept away from Grade Ones to preserve their allowance for the blue ribband events.

Also, the allowance is to recognise that mares have a physical disadvantage and shouldn't penalise success. If you get a world class mare it is right that they dominate and we shouldn't try and blunt that greatness. I wouldn't want to see a situation where a reasonable mare with a 7lb allowance ends up beating a world class mare sans allowance by a length.

It also wouldn't really help redress the balance in handicaps where graded successes are unlikely to be relevant.

I do agree that the balance seems to be slightly out though. In my view, the mares allowance should remain static but the amount given should be reduced. I would amend the allowance to 5lbs for a couple of seasons. See if that equals things out.

[archie]

I also vote against veterans chases in general and at Cheltenham in particular. An injury to what would be an old favourite would only bring bad publicity.

Trying to get my head round people complaining about 'modernisation' of the Festival in the same breath as proposing to axe the oldest race in the whole shebang.

Novice handicaps are a nonsense anyway. I was pleased that the chase was ditched and I'd do the same with the juvenile handicap. If you want to avoid having novices hidden for the big handicaps, make qualifying for Class 1 handicaps having the requirement of 5 or 6 previous runs over the applicable obstacles. That means that connections are giving up almost an entire season if they're planning a coup.

[Stormez]

Surely the Mares allowance should be about the disadvantage most mares have, rather than the advantage it gives the top 0.01%?

And don’t think it’s a far stretch to say Honeysuckle still sometimes needs her allowance to win Grade 1’s, hasn’t Zanahiyr come out of their last two meetings as the best horse in the race?

Take that away & she’d now be a 3 time winner of the Mares Hurdle, and who’d care about that?

[Star Of A Gunner]

There isn't a thread as such, but I'd strongly recommend getting Club badges for the week so you can use the parts of the racecourse that suit you best, or so you can mix it up and spend the days in lightly different ways.

In terms of restaurants and nightlife you'll get lots of different suggestions on here, but with restaurants you want to book very early. I wouldn't recommend going anywhere just for pub grub. You'll struggle to find a seat and you'll wait forever for your food.

Where your staying may have a bearing on suggestions too?

Many thanks for your reply Spectre, seeings how it will probably be a complete one off I think Club is by far the best option for us. We will be staying in the Leckhampton area of Cheltenham so I will be looking for restaurants and pubs in that area. We are only going racing for the first two days, so for the next two we will be in the town Centre early to soak up the atmosphere.

[Atlantic Viking]

Great to see Buzz up and about

https://twitter.com/jess_stafford_/status/1508427693787856898

[BigChaang]

Better Day's Ahead is available @ 20-1 any race - will hill's , if anyone's interested , same price as just the ch. bumper with skybet.
bit of insurance in case he goes hurdling .??. for those who like him.

[Exar Essay]

Better Day's Ahead is available @ 20-1 any race - will hill's , if anyone's interested , same price as just the ch. bumper with skybet.
bit of insurance in case he goes hurdling .??. for those who like him.

Someone clearly agreed ... slashed to 12/1 along with An Tobar

[Joleg]

Someone clearly agreed ... slashed to 12/1 along with An Tobar

An Tobar now 7-1 !! After being 20-1 yesterday. They're not gonna be giving much a way this year

[MTR]

Anybody know the next set of scratchings for the national? Or is it now just the 5 or 6 day decs next? Thanks

[Madmoose]

Anybody know the next set of scratchings for the national? Or is it now just the 5 or 6 day decs next? Thanks

Think it’s just a Monday now upcoming for the 5 day decs for the National

[robith]

I was so busy during the week, I didn't get a chance to say. I believe there was a post about trends busting all over the place during the week, and what would happen on the last day.

I didn't have time to post it, but a trend was busted historically.

In winning the Gold Cup, A Plus Tard became forever, the only horse to have ever won the Chase Brothers Novice Handicap Chase, and won another race at the festival

[Stormez]

I was so busy during the week, I didn't get a chance to say. I believe there was a post about trends busting all over the place during the week, and what would happen on the last day.

I didn't have time to post it, but a trend was busted historically.

In winning the Gold Cup, A Plus Tard became forever, the only horse to have ever won the Chase Brothers Novice Handicap Chase, and won another race at the festival

If Galvin had won, would he have been the first horse to be beat in a festival handicap then go onto win the Gold Cup?

There might be a really obvious answer, but I can’t think of it off the top of my head!

[luisgarciaisgod]

If Galvin had won, would he have been the first horse to be beat in a festival handicap then go onto win the Gold Cup?

There might be a really obvious answer, but I can’t think of it off the top of my head!

I know Synchronised ran and failed to win the Pertemps before winning his Gold Cup. Not sure about any others

[Istabraq]

If Galvin had won, would he have been the first horse to be beat in a festival handicap then go onto win the Gold Cup?

There might be a really obvious answer, but I can’t think of it off the top of my head!

You have to go back a long way but I'm fairly sure Nortons Coin was beaten in a handicap chase at the 1989 festival before landing the 1990 Gold Cup...