General Chat

[Winging The Last]

https://www.racingtv.com/news/de-bromhead-looking-forward-to-welcoming-cheveley-park-team

Little bit from HDB about the arrivals today

[Pendil1111]

A very good point. I also saw a very good synopsis in this thread about how some people defer to comedy to make the best of a bad situation, this is also a very Irish trait. Apologies in advance if this gets a little dark but it needs to be highlighted.

For full disclosure, I was born and raised in rural Ireland with a strong farming background, with horses and all sorts of farm animals. Death is part of the occupation, you become desensitized to it, you almost have to if you wish to remain in the trade. Do not get me wrong, what Elliot and others have done is incredibly stupid and it does no positive to the game of racing. But in the grand scheme of things, it should not be a hanging offense! When you are the carer of 300+ horses, its impossible to have emotional attachment to them all. Sitting on a dead animal while grinning at the camera is idiotic and is not a good look, but for some context, what do people think happens to the horse as part of next steps in disposing the body? There are no animal grave yards. That horse would have been picked up by its hind legs and loaded into the back of a truck to the local knackery. There the carcass would be skinned and disemboweled before being chopped up and on tomorrows menu at the local hunt kennels or Dublin Zoo. Having someone sitting on the horse is disrespectful however the disposal of the horse isn't?

I have friends who teach kids in urban areas and the disconnect between animals and human is amazing if they are anything to go by. Some were shocked to learn where milk on their shop shelves actually comes from for example, never mind when the conversation is raised of where their meat is coming from.

Unfortunately racing will pander to people who are so far removed from the realities of animal ownership and livelihoods that revolve around animals. They will recline on their leather chairs after their lamb dinners, happy in the knowledge that something they were told is cruel is being knocked down a peg or two.

It's a momentary lack of judgement that shows a distinct lack of class - Elliott should be punished accordingly. Owners moving their horses away is the worst punishment he will face and rightly so

I would like to associate myself with the content of this post and I would like to add that severe punishment is not ideal in my very humble opinion ! Taking away the livelihood of mr. Elliott would no doubt be removing the livelihood of dozens of staff with detrimental effects on the owners horses........No ?

[Redbridge]

https://www.racingpost.com/news/late...rospect/476037

Nicholls on changing yards so close to Cheltenham

[Carnage at Taunton]

I would like to associate myself with the content of this post and I would like to add that severe punishment is not ideal in my very humble opinion ! Taking away the livelihood of mr. Elliott would no doubt be removing the livelihood of dozens of staff with detrimental effects on the owners horses........No ?

I am sure everything relevant will be taken into account when whatever action is decided.

[Carnage at Taunton]

https://www.racingpost.com/news/late...rospect/476037

Nicholls on changing yards so close to Cheltenham

Dont give one great confidence having backed some of these!!

[Redbridge]

Dont give one great confidence having backed some of these!!

I had the same conversation earlier re WM not running French Aseel since change over.

[PresentingPercy]

I would like to associate myself with the content of this post and I would like to add that severe punishment is not ideal in my very humble opinion ! Taking away the livelihood of mr. Elliott would no doubt be removing the livelihood of dozens of staff with detrimental effects on the owners horses........No ?

Yes, sorry if my point was unclear. The greatest punishment is already being dealt out to him in ownership moving animals away from his yard. It's unfortunate, but understandable. People calling for lifetime bans are completely out of touch with the realities of animal ownership and care.

[Rooster Booster]

There are many posts focussing on what punishment Gordon Elliott should receive and many are providing thorough and compelling arguments for the need to understand cultural and environmental factors when reaching that judgement. I can completely understand this, it may well be right but it is completely irrelevant to the big picture. The exact nature of his punishment is only relevant to him and those in one way or another connected to him.

whether he is treated punitively or leniently will not matter that much in the big picture of things. The world now thinks that one of the most gifted respected and successful trainers has no respect for animals. That train has left the station. It takes a lifetime to gain a reputation and a nano second to lose it. Much as we might want the world to stop and understand and wait to hear all the relevant and mitigating evidence the world will not do that. That is just for internal consumption. The outside world has already made its judgement.

As far as the world is concerned horse racing is a sport where humans gain pleasure from putting animals in life and death situations for pleasure and the images the world has now seen confirms just how clinically and dispassionately those at the vey pinnacle of the sport reconcile the sacrifice these animals are making for our pleasure.. We cannot assume the sport can continue to showcase itself this way and think the world is just going to sit back and let it happen.

the more we get locked into what punishment the trainer should get and think of that as the biggest issue at play here the more we will be guilty once again of thinking we have our own destiny in our own hands. Again I think this is short sightedness of a level so extreme it is making me think the sport will deserve everything it gets.

I haven’t seen anything that even remotely resembles a strategic plan by the sport to deal with the broader ramifications. Everybody seems to be locked into the minutiae and nobody looking outside. The few references I have seen on here to this have been references to the importance of Ed chamberlain doing a good job on Saturday. This is just touching the very edges of things.

I have seen some talk on here of losing sponsors. This is a much bigger issue than what punishment Gordon Elliott receives. How the fuck does the sport attract much needed new sponsors ? How do we think things will go now if a labour government gets in. How do we think this shit storm sets us up to defend affordability checks, how do we think our future attempts to lobby people in Westminster are going to go now and so on and on and on.

A few folks on here have said this is now about PR. Absolutely right, the sport needs to start pulling rabbits out of hats and very fucking soon and the stakes have never been higher imo.

[Big Bucks]

Made the sport headline tonight on BBC news Northern Ireland. Dont know if was on last night, rarely watch the news, but strange for Horse racing to get a mention! Was a decent timed segment for it!

[Rooster Booster]

I should just add that the sentence imposed will have relevance in that it will be seem by the outside world as a representation of how seriously the sport wants to put things right. This however appears to be at great odds with how many on here want to see sentencing approached so it seems Huston we have a problem

[Garrison Savannah]

Lots of hyperbole on this thread.

My opinion, and it’s just my opinion, is that we give the sport far more importance than it really has.

Most of the world won’t have seen the photo, most that have will have raised their eyebrows and forgotten about it as quick as it takes them to scroll through their Twitter feed.

[KickOnMyCockers]

Dont give one great confidence having backed some of these!!

I would argue that moving a horse two weeks before a festival is easier (in the short term) to settle as two weeks worth of feed and continuing two weeks of core work must be simple enough to keep going.

[HoldenTheReins]

Is anyone else's bets with 365 still unavailable for cash out? even non GE horses are for me.

[thorne365]

Well you could nominate a price like 33/1 and pick horses at that price. You don't know what price a long price winner will be beforehand. That wouldn't have done too well in 2020. Or look at how picking the 2nd/3rd/4th favourite etc would have done. I don't intend to do that as I don't think I need to to make the point, The 2020 results are just one example but the basic principle is shown by the simplified example I used.

i think you're right in a 1 v 1 scenario where you would be maximising your chances to beat your opponent whos using the other strategy - problem is that in a comp with a decent number of entries variance is going to mean that some entries have the big priced winners and the fav strategy basically can't win

[Stormez]

https://www.racingpost.com/news/late...rospect/476037

Nicholls on changing yards so close to Cheltenham

I can’t help but read this as Nicholls stirring the pot as he loves to do!