General Chat

[jack1092]

Thanks, I have the opposite view, that’s a forum for you. Anyway whatever our views are we won’t change what is decided. Time will tell .

You have the view he'll never train again? Why?

[TheEagleHasLanded]

People need to get a grip now, this is getting absolutely ridiculous.....'whether NH Racing survives or starts a rapid decline into oblivion', I mean really?!?!?!?!

Why would a billion pound industry followed adoringly by millions end because a stupid idiotic twat like Gordon behaved deplorably, or because Robert James is a sick twisted disgusting little cunt?

There are wrong un's in every sport, and in every walk of life, but that's why the authorities exist, and that is what they are for.

Suggesting ITV will walk away and that racing will start a rapid decline into oblivion is the height of nonsense IMO.

I’ve found these bits of news deplorable but I tend to agree with you, racing is in the spotlight right now (correctly) the same as football, athletics have been recently, and no doubt another sport will be there next month...it is a sport/hobby enjoyed around the world by millions and even if it had no fatalities etc there will always be people who disagree with it for whatever their reason maybe. What we truly need is the authorities to come together (for once) rather than try to point score and put in measures to make sure this or things like this do not happen again.

[Redbridge]

I don't think there is anything as sinister as that. GE has been caught allegedly shagging one of the workers and a member of staff and/or KH are behind the leaking of the photo and other information.

I do think whoever has released it will end up regretting this as it could lead to job losses for some of the stable staff etc and it should have been sent to the IHRB first and if a satisfactory response was not received, then release on social media.

There is a reason that this story is bigger in the racing community than the outside world is all because of fear of what others may think, but in truth there are far worse things happening daily around the world.

Yes, it was insensitive but no one has died, I was far more shocked at the terrible image of poor L'Ami Serge in running a week or so back, that was happening to a live animal and I felt sick but lived with it for the next 24 hours and then we go on with our love of racing.

L'Ami Serge needs more justification than an idiotic moment in someone's life who stupidly allowed himself to be captured on digital imaging forever and to be hung out to dry on a tide of emotion, muderers and paedo's deserve national coverage and this story is being allowed to fester on, I posted earlier about peoples livings and that drew no reaction whatsoever.

Let the authorities put this to bed with minimal cost to those that love and care for the animals and do as little damage to these people as possible, these are the real story.

[Atlantic Viking]

Surely the issue raised here is a PR one?

Whilst shocking to the onlooker, gallows humour is a tool used in dealing with the morbid issue at hand. It has always existed within abattoirs and no doubt farmyards as well.

The content of this media seeping into the limelight is indefensible, and will cause so much disillusionment and discomfort to onlookers far and wide but it’s imperative we take a balanced view before demanding that the industry be shut down pending an investigation into the levels of respect shown to the corpses of animals.

In the cold light of day, this is basically where i'm at too. I don't excuse any of it for a second and could never personally imagine acting in such a way because i'm such a soft bastard about animals if nothing else and just haven't been brought up like that, but gallows humour among people that regularly have to see dreadful things is nothing new or surprising.
Do I honestly find the photo or video shocking? No, not at all. Sad yes and disappointing, but I can at least understand the context. In the jockey example, he's being actively encouraged to do it (no, I wouldn't jump off a bridge, this is about trying to get inside the thought processes of these people, not excuse it) and sits on it for no more than a couple of seconds, I don't look at it and feel they're seeking to disrespect a dead animal, I look at it and see them thinking what they're doing is making light of the situation. The crime is stupidity and however snobby it sounds, a lack of class and probably education. Does that make it right? Of course it doesn't, it's hugely disrespectful, it's stupid and they should know better and be professional if nothing else. But you'd have to be intensely naive to think it's anything new. The only new element is the cameras and social media.
This is a PR disaster for a sport that at the best of times needs all the good PR it can lay its hands on, but it's one that doesn't on the face of it involve animal welfare. It's deeply unpalatable, but the horse(s) were deceased. It does however raise questions about animal welfare, it's hard to avoid thinking that if some involved show this level of disrespect and are seemingly so desensitised, what else goes on? If there's one good thing to come from all this then hopefully it's that it helps weed the stupid out and that standards are raised higher than ever.

Ultimately we already follow a sport where for our entertainment, horses lose their lives on a regular basis, often due to appalling and gut wrenching injuries, regularly witnessed on live tv. We say our thoughts go out to connections etc... then move on to the next race. We make excuses for it and there is of course a lot of context to be applied, but those are the bare facts and something that regularly makes me question my support, even though I love the sport and understand it.
We watch a sport that has a channel that runs an LGBT advert regularly where the message is that its everyones sport and the LGBT community is welcome in it, which of course it is and they are. Then without a hint of irony we go across to live racing from Meydan and Riyadh, where people fall over themselves to bow to such regimes and fawn over how great it all is for the sport, by which they mean the prize funds on offer which are impossible to ignore. Flat racing in particular falls over itself to accommodate anyone who throws money at it regardless of the dubious nature of that money and the nations it originates from. No shortage of other examples where the sport walks a strange path. The moral high ground is a tricky old thing in this game.

[luisgarciaisgod]

I don't think there is anything as sinister as that. GE has been caught allegedly shagging one of the workers and a member of staff and/or KH are behind the leaking of the photo and other information.

I do think whoever has released it will end up regretting this as it could lead to job losses for some of the stable staff etc and it should have been sent to the IHRB first and if a satisfactory response was not received, then release on social media.

I would have thought that KH was too far ingrained in the sport to be behind all this tbh.

[DenmanSacre]

Can’t blame them. Let’s be right, he wasn’t winning, probably wasn’t even completing. Hit them where it hurts, they proper over stepped their bounds yesterday.

Tbh probably not the worst thing. He hasn't looked himself this year and the last thing we would want was an unfortunate accident at Aintree with him.

[DenmanSacre]

There is a reason that this story is bigger in the racing community than the outside world is all because of fear of what others may think, but in truth there are far worse things happening daily around the world.

Yes, it was insensitive but no one has died, I was far more shocked at the terrible image of poor L'Ami Serge in running a week or so back, that was happening to a live animal and I felt sick but lived with it for the next 24 hours and then we go on with our love of racing.

L'Ami Serge needs more justification than an idiotic moment in someone's life who stupidly allowed himself to be captured on digital imaging forever and to be hung out to dry on a tide of emotion, muderers and paedo's deserve national coverage and this story is being allowed to fester on, I posted earlier about peoples livings and that drew no reaction whatsoever.

Let the authorities put this to bed with minimal cost to those that love and care for the animals and do as little damage to these people as possible, these are the real story.

Well said.

[DenmanSacre]

I would have thought that KH was too far ingrained in the sport to be behind all this tbh.

Maybe so, but people do things they regret when they are emotional. My opinion would be that she isn't involved and it is someone else at the stables.

[DenmanSacre]

I heard this.

But i also heard that it was linked to Labaik's crime boss former owner.

Probably shite all the same.

Not heard the Labaik one. I do hope the rumours regarding GE's treatment of Labaik are not true however.

[ComplyOrDie]

There is a reason that this story is bigger in the racing community than the outside world is all because of fear of what others may think, but in truth there are far worse things happening daily around the world.

Yes, it was insensitive but no one has died, I was far more shocked at the terrible image of poor L'Ami Serge in running a week or so back, that was happening to a live animal and I felt sick but lived with it for the next 24 hours and then we go on with our love of racing.

L'Ami Serge needs more justification than an idiotic moment in someone's life who stupidly allowed himself to be captured on digital imaging forever and to be hung out to dry on a tide of emotion, muderers and paedo's deserve national coverage and this story is being allowed to fester on, I posted earlier about peoples livings and that drew no reaction whatsoever.

Let the authorities put this to bed with minimal cost to those that love and care for the animals and do as little damage to these people as possible, these are the real story.

Yep, I agree with some of this.

A horse died at Plumpton yesterday, even jumped a hurdle with a leg hanging loose (yes it's a graphic image, but it's a reality of the sport), but barely anyone on Social Media mentions this, and it certainly hasn't been discussed on here, until now.

Sitting on a dead horse, whilst disturbingly shocking, and he really should know better, is not like he pulled the trigger. How is he anymore guilty than a jockey making a horse jump a hurdle who then breaks a leg and has to be put down?

I can see why the outrage occurred, because ultimately it looks like he's having a jolly on the back of a dead horse, but that's not what he said happened, and there is little evidence to suggest otherwise.

Rob James on the other hand.....

[Lbur4288]

https://www.theirishfield.ie/rob-james-i-am-heartbroken-by-the-damage-i-have-caused-605928/

Stupidity is a massive understatement...

[Eggs]

https://www.theirishfield.ie/rob-jam...caused-605928/

Stupidity is a massive understatement...

....just been read out on ATR, not surprised his ride today is a NR.

[Carnage at Taunton]

You have the view he'll never train again? Why?

I have the view that he should not be allowed to work with horses again. That is because I have the opinion that we need to be seen to do our upmost to try and rid an animal sport of any sort of cruelty towards those animals and anything that suggests cruelty is happening within the sport, and anyone responsible for this not given the chance to ever do so again.
I hope this happens, I honestly think it’s the best thing for the sport going forward.

[Eireman]

In the cold light of day, this is basically where i'm at too. I don't excuse any of it for a second and could never personally imagine acting in such a way because i'm such a soft bastard about animals if nothing else and just haven't been brought up like that, but gallows humour among people that regularly have to see dreadful things is nothing new or surprising.
Do I honestly find the photo or video shocking? No, not at all. Sad yes and disappointing, but I can at least understand the context. In the jockey example, he's being actively encouraged to do it (no, I wouldn't jump off a bridge, this is about trying to get inside the thought processes of these people, not excuse it) and sits on it for no more than a couple of seconds, I don't look at it and feel they're seeking to disrespect a dead animal, I look at it and see them thinking what they're doing is making light of the situation. The crime is stupidity and however snobby it sounds, a lack of class and probably education. Does that make it right? Of course it doesn't, it's hugely disrespectful, it's stupid and they should know better and be professional if nothing else. But you'd have to be intensely naive to think it's anything new. The only new element is the cameras and social media.
This is a PR disaster for a sport that at the best of times needs all the good PR it can lay its hands on, but it's one that doesn't on the face of it involve animal welfare. It's deeply unpalatable, but the horse(s) were deceased. It does however raise questions about animal welfare, it's hard to avoid thinking that if some involved show this level of disrespect and are seemingly so desensitised, what else goes on? If there's one good thing to come from all this then hopefully it's that it helps weed the stupid out and that standards are raised higher than ever.

Ultimately we already follow a sport where for our entertainment, horses lose their lives on a regular basis, often due to appalling and gut wrenching injuries, regularly witnessed on live tv. We say our thoughts go out to connections etc... then move on to the next race. We make excuses for it and there is of course a lot of context to be applied, but those are the bare facts and something that regularly makes me question my support, even though I love the sport and understand it.
We watch a sport that has a channel that runs an LGBT advert regularly where the message is that its everyones sport and the LGBT community is welcome in it, which of course it is and they are. Then without a hint of irony we go across to live racing from Meydan and Riyadh, where people fall over themselves to bow to such regimes and fawn over how great it all is for the sport, by which they mean the prize funds on offer which are impossible to ignore. Flat racing in particular falls over itself to accommodate anyone who throws money at it regardless of the dubious nature of that money and the nations it originates from. No shortage of other examples where the sport walks a strange path. The moral high ground is a tricky old thing in this game.

This is a smashing post mate and puts everything into context beautifully.

[chunker86]

Thanks, I have the opposite view, that’s a forum for you. Anyway whatever our views are we won’t change what is decided. Time will tell .

Taking the emotion out of it and looking at it from a legal perspective, a lifetime ban is extremely unlikely.

Even the IHRB enforce a lifetime ban, it can be appealed to IHRB appeals, and even then that appeal can be taken to CAS, or in extreme cases through National and European Courts.

Sporting penalties must be proportionate to the objective that they pursue and any period of disqualification must be reasonable - this is why athletes wont get lifetime bans for doping offences, the 2 years for 1st offence, 4 for 2nd etc have been ruled and accepted as proportionate to the objective of maintaining a clean sport.

Elliot will be likely be charged with some form of bringing the sport into disrepute using the provisions below, i can't see a case sticking that a lifetime ban is proportionate for taking a crass photograph on a deceased horse particularly when there have been recent cases across BHA and IHRB of: jockey stopping a horse (Callum McKinnes 56 days), Trainers Ordering Jockeys to stop horses (Jim Best 4 years, reduced to 6 months), Trainer negligence leading to a positive doping result (Charles Byrnes 6 months).

If the objective is to preserve the good reputation of horse racing, then a lifetime ban is not reasonable, as it essentially amounts to a permanent restraint of trade which is not proportionate to the offence, particularly when compared to the sanctions handed down to others who have also been seen to cause damage to the interests of horseracing in Ireland or the UK.

RULES OF RACING AND IRISH NATIONAL HUNT STEEPLECHASE RULES 2020

PART XXIII

PRESERVING THE GOOD REPUTATION OF HORSERACING

271. The standard of proof to be applied in all Stewards' Enquiries and in all cases before the Licensing Committee, the Referrals Committee or the Appeals Body shall be the balance of probabilities.

272. Any person involved in horse racing who, within the jurisdiction of the IHRB;
(i) whether verbally or by conduct or behaviour, acts in a manner which is prejudicial to the integrity, proper conduct or good reputation of horseracing (whether or not such behaviour or conduct, verbal or otherwise is associated directly with horseracing);

273 (xii) It shall be a breach of these Rules for any person to do any act which in the opinion of the Referrals Committee or the Appeals Body is likely to be prejudicial to the interests of the IHRB or which is likely to cause serious damage to the interests of horseracing in Ireland whether or not such an act shall otherwise amount to a breach of these Rules or any Regulation or instruction made thereunder