General Chat

[archie]

He's apologised for something though hasn't he ?

His version provides some context, not absolvement.

He is already guilty and has admitted it.

Betfair have properly shafted him in your eyes then ? - I think they have.

FWIW, I think the O'Leary's have done one of the first good things I think I can remember them doing.
Their statement was objective and fair.
Also brave as if other things emerge then they'll have to deal with it, but any change of tack would be completely understandable.

It feels to me that he's apologised for the way it looks and the PR fallout rather than for what he did.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much in agreement.

[Rooster Booster]

You're isolating this to one part of a complete picture. I haven't read anywhere on this entire thread that anyone thinks Elliott has done anything but the wrong thing, and won't be held to account. I also haven't read anyone redirecting anything away from him, Just that there is another party here who isn't innocent either, and sees fit to post this on social media as part of a personal vendetta, rather than send it to the authorities.

I'm genuinely surprised some seem to think this part of it is okay, or even to be rewarded.

The fact that this is instant trial by social media is highly likely to kill our sport, or at least damage it to the extent it will struggle to recover from it.

The football analogy isn't relevant either. This has been posted by a racing insider to specifically bring down Elliott because of a personal vendetta. It's been done maliciously, and has much wider implications to literally everyone that works in the industry, or follows the sport.

I understand how you feel about this. My point is the outside world will not give a monkeys about the right or wrongs about the person that brought this to everyone’s attention. Nobody will care. Only people in or around racing will care and that is what I mean by insular. If anybody in racing start talking about the motives of the whistleblower then it will be seen by the rest of the world as though racing is not taking responsibility which is how the world already sees racing.

Again the relevance of the footballer analogy is to try and put across how everybody not involved in racing will view this. They will not care less whether it was an insider with a vendetta posting this to cause trouble, they will not care that it is an old image that somebody has held onto to gain maximum effect, all the non racing world will see is one of the most celebrated professionals in the sport with one of the biggest string of horses under his care sitting on a dead horse. There is no way out of this.

[Kevloaf]

Clearly a very emotive and heated topic.

I urge everyone to please refrain from getting personal or caught up and focussed on disagreeing with each other.

We're essentially all on the same side. Opinions are encouraged, just please be respectful as you can be to keep this place from looking like twitter can.

[TCH29]

Unpopular though it may be with some, I think some people’s judgement on here is being clouded by a) wanting to defend the sport, and b) rationalise both the photo and context (compared to the sports’ other recent misdemeanours).

Neither are relevant here.

Whether Elliot’s explanation is true or false, it matters not. A horse has died in his care, on his gallops, and he is sitting on it smiling appearing not to give a f*ck. The damage that does the sport could be huge. It’s his actions that damage the sport, not someone sharing the picture. If you don’t do that, there’s nothing to share.

Obviously whoever leaked it has not done so with the sport’s best interests interest. They’ve done it to hurt Elliot. If that’s because of a personal beef, then they are being selfish, but if that beef is because of Elliot not keeping it in his pants, screwing someone over financially, etc, Elliot doesn’t have my sympathy.

Fundamentally his actions, whatever the reasoning and however it came to the public’s attention, damage the sport. He, no one else, has brought the sport into disrepute and he should be punished accordingly, especially financially.

I don’t think punishing the stables serves any purpose and could do more harm to both horse and stable staff welfare. They should be able to run at Cheltenham but Elliot should not be there.

My personal worry, that I think others outside the sport will latch onto, is, if that is how Elliot treats the death of a horse in his care, how does he treat horses in pain, horses frightened, etc. Even if Elliot had received a call, why pick it up there and then. Call them back. I worry this shines a light on behaviour and feelings towards horses that I hoped wasn’t true; that they’re just horses and they doesn’t matter and are purely a means to and end. They should matter. The defence for racing has always been horses receive a standard of care they never would on a farm, in a field or under private care in terms of feed, exercise and vet care. For all that is true and I’m sure Elliot’s stables uphold it, he’s really undermined everything with this behaviour. Hopefully there are no more such photos to come out where he has behaved carelessly. But only he and those close to him know that. If there are, and he cares about the sport, he should resign from his role and pass control of the stables on. If there aren’t, good; he should take his medicine and return in 6 months’ time.

[Quevega]

It feels to me that he's apologised for the way it looks and the PR fallout rather than for what he did.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much in agreement.

Agreed.
An admission of guilt with regards....

His involvement in a moment of carelessness that has led to disrepute via perception.

Anything else would be hard to prove from the picture alone.

A tough one for the authorities I reckon, and one they probably can't get right no matter how hard they try.

[Middle_Of_March]

For anyone to have an issue with that being shared, they're clearly thinking about the possible ruin of their Antepost bets, which is extremely distasteful and a very small part of the picture.

I think that’s an extraordinarily unfair accusation to make at Spectre there Scooby

[Middle_Of_March]

Clearly a very emotive and heated topic.

I urge everyone to please refrain from getting personal or caught up and focussed on disagreeing with each other.

We're essentially all on the same side. Opinions are encouraged, just please be respectful as you can be to keep this place from looking like twitter can.

Do you know who I blame for this? I blame the person who said a week or two ago that it’s been smoothe sailing for all our antepost bets with injuries. That person has now caused fate to be tempted by possibly ruling out 100 at once..

[Geegees]

Whilst I'm horrified by what I saw, Elliott hasn't been neglectful. There's no cruelty involved. He has been incredibly stupid though, albeit he would have thought it was behind closed doors.

There is no specific offence involved, although I'd imagine he'll be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. I've no idea what tarrif the Irish Board can levy for that though. The BHA however should be staying out of it until a full investigation is completed. It's not their investiation to carry out, and therefore any sancltions outside of the offficial investigation would be unwise. They'd certainly be unwise preventing the horses in his care coming over to Cheltenham, as I'm sure they'd be facing multiple lawsuits.

It's also worth remembering that Elliott didn't put the picture into the mainstream media/social media. A third party has done that. Not by bringing it to the attention of the Irish Horse Racing Authority, but by maliciously posting it on social media. I'm angry at Elliott's stupity, but I want to hunt the bastard down that posted the photo and string him up. I'm genuinely surprised more of you guys don't feel the same? We are all shocked by the image we've seem, and the stupidity that Elliott has shown, but why isn't it being considered how it came to our attention in the first place, who put it there, and what the motivation was?

The personal vendetta this individual has against Elliott is what has caused the outrage, and it's the posting of it on social media that threatens to bring the sport we all love down. It's actually not Gordon sitting on a horse in private (and in the worst possible taste), at his own premises, behind closed doors that's the problem. It is, but you know what I mean. When people get past the emotion and realise what's actually happened here, the idiot that posted the image may need to find a new country to live in.

Completely disagree with you hear unfortunately... it should be the same as all other sport stars ... you are in the public eye and role models for the younger generation and therefore you need to set an example.

as much as the person leaking the photo has caused issues for the sport, what was to say if there was a full blown investigation and it was found that GE actually wasn’t meeting the supervisory standards for the horses in his care?

Now I’m not saying he isn’t but sometimes leaks across business/ sport/ politics help shine a light on issues swept under the rug. Whilsteblowing happens all the time and should never be punished

[Milbear0]

I do hope someone associated with Elliot has the sense to guide him through this - as his media savvy so far has been an embarrassment.

In the unlikely event the photo taker/editor still works for the yard Elliot needs to suspend their employment (on full pay following the IHRB investigation) - although I very much doubt if they are still associated with him.

He then needs to step down pending the result of the IHRB investigation, and nominate someone within his yard that can be clearly demonstrated to have had no involvement with the image taken to temporarily operate his license.

At that point all the owners and BHA can cease the obligatory media posturing and allow the innocent parties caught in the crossfire to continue with the business of horse racing.

Elliot is the only person on trial here, and he has to take a heavy fall solely on his own shoulders not drag innocent owners and yard staff to into his self-made pit of public disgust.

For what it’s worth, the IHRB can also handle his sanction with a good deal less pressure and scrutiny once he has self excluded from racehorse training, which in turn allows him a platform from
which to rebuild once his sentence is served.

By now he must have realised his career is ironically symbiotic to the fate of his bench.

[Nortons who]

If they didn’t suspend Byrnes pending they can’t suspend Elliott

Personally I think they can and will because the PR damage to the sport is likely to be exponentially far greater this time around.

Also I'm not sure it's a plausible line of argument with the current furore to be thinking that just because one guy was luckly not to be suspended immediately, a similar leniency will apply here too. In fact I hope it doesn't and GE is suspended straight away because otherwise the public will be baying for his blood all the way from now to Cheltenham.

GE has admitted he did what has been photographed, he has apologised and in the fullness of time he can put his case properly at a tribunal but there is insufficent time to do that now, so a suspension must be the most pragmatic course of action in the lead up to the highest profile NH jumps meeeting of the year.

[ryanh97]

I was listening to Nick Luck on his podcast earlier and he was said that he spoke to the IHRB to see what the process is. Basically they've got to conduct their investigation, then a panel is selected from the Turf club to listen to the prosecution and defence, to then allow them to decide what the punishment is. This will drag on and on

[Scooby91]

I presume you don't really believe this person should be rewarded for the untold damage that is currently being done to the sport by dragging it through the gutter by posting a 4 year old picture on social media, just because they want to pursue a personal vendetta? How can you possibly believe that?

The person sharing may not be the person who took the pic.

Personal vandetta or not. It is simply unacceptable.

I think it should 100% have been brought to light, and his yard be thoroughly investigated.

The sport through the gutter is by the actions of what happened in that picture and only Gordon himself is to blame.

Whether the person who shared the picture had only just seen it recently and shared it straight away, or had held on to it. Is irrelevant imo.

you can not sit on a dead horse, with a grin on your face, posing like it's a joke,
that's undoubtedly how the picture seems to anyine looking in, and that is the sole issue.
which makes people wonder whether that's just a single isolated case in his yard, and it should be looked into.

from all of that,
to have an issue with the person who has posted it, rather than the act itself, i can't personally fathom.

[TheEagleHasLanded]

I was listening to Nick Luck on his podcast earlier and he was said that he spoke to the IHRB to see what the process is. Basically they've got to conduct their investigation, then a panel is selected from the Turf club to listen to the prosecution and defence, to then allow them to decide what the punishment is. This will drag on and on

Cue the Benny Hill theme tune

[Eggs]

I was listening to Nick Luck on his podcast earlier and he was said that he spoke to the IHRB to see what the process is. Basically they've got to conduct their investigation, then a panel is selected from the Turf club to listen to the prosecution and defence, to then allow them to decide what the punishment is. This will drag on and on

...but they could suspend whilst the investigation is conducted and the BHA are free to immediately impose their own sanction/suspension.

[ToniC]

...but they could suspend whilst the investigation is conducted and the BHA are free to immediately impose their own sanction/suspension.

that would be extraordinary though, and set the totally wrong precedent IMO. The default message would essentially be that drugging a horse to stop it then laying said horse, isn’t as bad as sitting on a carcass. Which taking emotion out of it is essentially what he’s done.

dont envy the IHRB with this one but as with any judicial procedure they have to be objective, proportionate & consistent