General Chat

[PresentingPercy]

Is it public knowledge how long he has to stay pro for after turning pro?

I don't believe it's a matter of how long you need to remain pro, it's more a question of how long it takes to revert back to being an amateur. If he went pro, my understanding is it may take 6 months+ to revert back being an amateur. Plus he needs to stay under 25 winners while riding as a pro in order to still be able to do so.

90% of the amateur jockeys make a living riding in P2Ps, so putting that on hold for 6 or more months is just not feasible, whereas Patrick would not need to worry about that side of things, he makes his living being second in command at the yard.

[jack1092]

I don't believe it's a matter of how long you need to remain pro, it's more a question of how long it takes to revert back to being an amateur. If he went pro, my understanding is it may take 6 months+ to revert back being an amateur. Plus he needs to stay under 25 winners while riding as a pro in order to still be able to do so.

90% of the amateur jockeys make a living riding in P2Ps, so putting that on hold for 6 or more months is just not feasible, whereas Patrick would not need to worry about that side of things, he makes his living being second in command at the yard.

Exactly.

But he will want to be back in bumpers ASAP.

You'd imagine HRI would be getting nudges as we speak to let him turn amateur again sooner as a one-off given the nature of the situation. Probably won't budge.

[Big Bucks]

Out of curiosity see a few people have mentioned about losing accounts recently, has anyone lost Sky or PP and feel they place "muggy" bets. Maybe I should be a bit more paranoid, but what I do gain a healthy profit via Cheltenham, they will get a fair share of it back with my footy bets I place! So I don't see there ever being an issue with losing my account if I'm pretty much throwing it back at them! In hindsight I should have been more aware and spread out bets, as I probably was taking up offers and promos and not punting on footy etc and that's why I lost those but these 2 I feel like I shouldn't be worried? Thoughts?

Or the guys losing your accounts, do you have good discipline, beat the system and not "gamble" to an extent where you place muggy bets at all?

[Istabraq]

Big Bucks

Re account closure.
Bookies use a host of strategies when imposing restrictions, as far as I know we've unfortunately never had an ex bookmaker in here who can point out to us what the key flags are.
I think if you're sensible you can avoid closure/restriction, spread bets around several bookies even if it means taking worse terms, although this seems like losing value you have to weigh up the prospect of living life with one or two options only and what value you lose then.
Throw fancied selections in multis, and if you are lucky enough to have a great day and a patent/yankee lands then make sure you throw some money back straight away, pick out the next live TV event (football is best because the majority of punters bet football) and play some mug markets like first goalscorer, RABs or bookmaker equivalent, have a 4/5/6 team acca or better still an over 2.5 acca which registers as a proper mug bet.
Although they're not open yet when shops do return it is better to walk up an down your local high street having smaller stakes in each shop than hitting one, ultimately you are far less likely to get restricted in shops than you are online.
Also when we're allowed back on a racecourse don't be afraid to go racing and have a big play on course, you might like the benefit of BOG with online bookies but this is one of the first benefits they remove so protect it as it will often pay better on a small stakes big price multi that, in the bookmakers eyes, will look lucky rather than clever.
Bookmakers also look to link your account with known/disqualified punters and if your betting patterns match they will restrict you, so if you have friends/contacts who are restricted use different bookmakers to them.

I lost most of my accounts 15+ years ago when I started punting cricket and NFL seriously but I've also lost accounts on the back of one golf major winner which highlights how keen some bookies are to get rid of you, ultimately they are cowards who don't have to explain their decision so you'll never know but it would be very helpful for us all if we could get some input from an ex online bookie....

[Liverpoolchamp]

Big Bucks

Re account closure.
Bookies use a host of strategies when imposing restrictions, as far as I know we've unfortunately never had an ex bookmaker in here who can point out to us what the key flags are.
I think if you're sensible you can avoid closure/restriction, spread bets around several bookies even if it means taking worse terms, although this seems like losing value you have to weigh up the prospect of living life with one or two options only and what value you lose then.
Throw fancied selections in multis, and if you are lucky enough to have a great day and a patent/yankee lands then make sure you throw some money back straight away, pick out the next live TV event (football is best because the majority of punters bet football) and play some mug markets like first goalscorer, RABs or bookmaker equivalent, have a 4/5/6 team acca or better still an over 2.5 acca which registers as a proper mug bet.
Although they're not open yet when shops do return it is better to walk up an down your local high street having smaller stakes in each shop than hitting one, ultimately you are far less likely to get restricted in shops than you are online.
Also when we're allowed back on a racecourse don't be afraid to go racing and have a big play on course, you might like the benefit of BOG with online bookies but this is one of the first benefits they remove so protect it as it will often pay better on a small stakes big price multi that, in the bookmakers eyes, will look lucky rather than clever.
Bookmakers also look to link your account with known/disqualified punters and if your betting patterns match they will restrict you, so if you have friends/contacts who are restricted use different bookmakers to them.

I lost most of my accounts 15+ years ago when I started punting cricket and NFL seriously but I've also lost accounts on the back of one golf major winner which highlights how keen some bookies are to get rid of you, ultimately they are cowards who don't have to explain their decision so you'll never know but it would be very helpful for us all if we could get some input from an ex online bookie....

If you don’t mind me asking,if you’ve had a lot of accounts taken away how do you get a decent bet on!? I’m asking in advance because I just know my 3 accounts will all be closed after I’ve smashed it at this year’s festival! Hahah!

[Istabraq]

If you don’t mind me asking,if you’ve had a lot of accounts taken away how do you get a decent bet on!?

Personally I go racing (in normal times) and bet on course, any online interests I spread across the options I’ve got and use friends, plus of course the exchange.
For Sport it’s exchange or I’ve got one completely unrestricted (non standard) account, I also have a contact in US and I have someone who arranges bets in Malaysia.

Ultimately don’t underestimate the value of your accounts, it’s an easy subject to dismiss when you have a dozen options but if you are good some will disappear and you need to be clever to protect the rest....

[PresentingPercy]

Big Bucks

Re account closure.
Bookies use a host of strategies when imposing restrictions, as far as I know we've unfortunately never had an ex bookmaker in here who can point out to us what the key flags are.
I think if you're sensible you can avoid closure/restriction, spread bets around several bookies even if it means taking worse terms, although this seems like losing value you have to weigh up the prospect of living life with one or two options only and what value you lose then.
Throw fancied selections in multis, and if you are lucky enough to have a great day and a patent/yankee lands then make sure you throw some money back straight away, pick out the next live TV event (football is best because the majority of punters bet football) and play some mug markets like first goalscorer, RABs or bookmaker equivalent, have a 4/5/6 team acca or better still an over 2.5 acca which registers as a proper mug bet.
Although they're not open yet when shops do return it is better to walk up an down your local high street having smaller stakes in each shop than hitting one, ultimately you are far less likely to get restricted in shops than you are online.
Also when we're allowed back on a racecourse don't be afraid to go racing and have a big play on course, you might like the benefit of BOG with online bookies but this is one of the first benefits they remove so protect it as it will often pay better on a small stakes big price multi that, in the bookmakers eyes, will look lucky rather than clever.
Bookmakers also look to link your account with known/disqualified punters and if your betting patterns match they will restrict you, so if you have friends/contacts who are restricted use different bookmakers to them.

I lost most of my accounts 15+ years ago when I started punting cricket and NFL seriously but I've also lost accounts on the back of one golf major winner which highlights how keen some bookies are to get rid of you, ultimately they are cowards who don't have to explain their decision so you'll never know but it would be very helpful for us all if we could get some input from an ex online bookie....

I agree with everything mentioned to hide your good betting. Another thing to add, the 'special prices' and 'boosted prices' that bookies post are generally negative margin for them to begin with, so if they see patterns in your account of you continuously backing these bets (and winning more than staking), its a tell tell sign that you know what you are doing versus the ordinary joe. They use these kind of bets as lures to pin point the shroods and act accordingly of limiting your account.

[Istabraq]

Another thing to add, the 'special prices' and 'boosted prices' that bookies post are generally negative margin for them to begin with

Good point.
Although these markets are generally restricted for everyone if there’s a pattern of you playing these regularly and not standard markets your account will flag.
But I would urge anyone who has a good Cheltenham to increase mug bets very soon after...

[Willdunn99]

I think it helps if you try to limit the frequency of withdrawals, obviously at some point you have to, but if you can afford to leave it in your account with that bookie then do, it’s similar to doing mug bets when you win good amounts. Bookies are more forgiving if they think your going to give them the money all back at some point. If your regularly withdrawing good amounts every week you’ll soon get restricted!

[Liverpoolchamp]

Personally I go racing (in normal times) and bet on course, any online interests I spread across the options I’ve got and use friends, plus of course the exchange.
For Sport it’s exchange or I’ve got one completely unrestricted (non standard) account, I also have a contact in US and I have someone who arranges bets in Malaysia.

Ultimately don’t underestimate the value of your accounts, it’s an easy subject to dismiss when you have a dozen options but if you are good some will disappear and you need to be clever to protect the rest....

Right ok mate thanks for the advice,2 of my accounts are not to good but the other one isn’t to shabby,and this one is my favourite one to use so let’s hope that one goes under the radar for a little while longer!

[Istabraq]

I think it helps if you try to limit the frequency of withdrawals, obviously at some point you have to, but if you can afford to leave it in your account with that bookie then do

I adopted this policy as standard but it didn't help, I had a 365 account for little more than a year and never made a single withdrawal in that time but it still went
Same PP, Blue Square, Stan James too.
It's good advice but not bombproof...

[Istabraq]

Right ok mate thanks for the advice,2 of my accounts are not to good but the other one isn’t to shabby,and this one is my favourite one to use so let’s hope that one goes under the radar for a little while longer!

One of the things I learnt many years ago is that you will never know if your account is under threat, bookies can (and do) restrict at will and have no obligation to explain their actions. I've had losing accounts severely restricted and, I told the story the other day somewhere, I had an 888 account for all of 8 hours and 4 bets (net profit 50 quid) before that was closed, not restricted, closed.
I would love for an ex bookie to come in here and explain their strategies so if there is one as member/lurker please come forward, or message me privately if you want discretion...

[Faugheen_Machine]

I had a problem with my wife's William Hill account last month as they'd restricted it to pennies. I went on live chat and requested the profit and loss and any notes on the account (all notes were redacted).

Since I kicked up a fuss and request that they send me all of the data, they seem to have relaxed the restriction a little. I appear to be allowed to win ?300 on a racing bet but they won't let me have more than pennies each way - much better than it was.

I think the Royal Pagialle Betfair Chase special was the one that killed the account.

[Nortons who]

I have a friend with senior bookmaker connections who explained to me years ago the way the Industry was heading and the no go areas. I can't go into full detail here but some key things to definitely avoid doing are :

# Using the same device for multiole accounts with the same company. They trace IP addrsses and will close down activity because this does contravene their regulations.
# Placing back and lay within the same company, especially to obtain Free bets, eg backing on Paddy Power or Bf Sportsbook and laying off on the Bf Exchange for net small loss to derive benefit of free bet.
# Placing a bet, obtaining a free bet and utilising the free bet to hedge against that initial bet.
# Patterns of placing small value multiples and then a large single win bet.
# Placing bets on only one type of market, they take a closer look to see if you are an expert.

The conclusion seemed to be that if you want to win big on-line its going to have to be a one off lucky strike or using Betfair Exchange with 2% comission, so long as you don't cross fire with the Sportsbook.

Some bookies have a higher tolerance for punters to win, such as Bet 365 which may allow sizable wins over time but not very regular large scale wins.

[jack1092]

Some bookies have a higher tolerance for punters to win, such as Bet 365 which may allow sizable wins over time but not very regular large scale wins.

I was told by a mate who is friends with a 365 worker that any bets under ?50 are monitored much less + restrictions are less likely. So bet 2x?25 if you want.

Monetary figures i know.