General Chat

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

Oh dear. Maybe we caught some gaffer in their risk team having a bad day! Interesting that you also feel it could be linked to the specials. It’s the only thing I can put it down to as all my other betting with them over recent days/weeks has just been ‘normal’ - I haven’t done anything out of the ordinary, in fact I can’t even remember when the last winning bet on the account was. It is (was) almost solely used for ante post.

If I may suggest that is probably where you are going wrong. I think they are conscious that anyone that solely users them for antepost Cheltenham bets probs has a decent chance of beating them, especially if they can see the prices are shortening on the majority of your bets. Obviously it is ridiculously harsh stance particularly before the Festival and probs with other factors at play as Ista said but think it is important to mix your bets up with on the day racing and other sports even if you just lay your state on the exchange.

[Istabraq]

Now that is bonkers!!

I used that bet on a festival double which is why my suggestion in #1393 may not be as wild as it sounds...

[Yorkhill]

What accounts would people recommend on here? I’ve had and lost 365 and Coral accounts and my Hills account is restricted to the point it’s worthless now. I now only use Skybet & BFSB but this obviously restricts prices, are there any other accounts that would be worth picking up? I’m always more wary of the smaller firms.
Annoyingly all my close mates have accounts so I can’t pick up any of theirs.

[Overturn]

Just a quick question. Was just looking through my open bets on my now useless hills account. I have a number of envoi shiskin doubles however on the ‘open bet’ screen they are all showing the ‘returns’ to be the same as the ‘stake’. Presume this is just an admin error and would be paid out correctly but wondered if anyone has had similar?

[Viking Flagship]

If I may suggest that is probably where you are going wrong. I think they are conscious that anyone that solely users them for antepost Cheltenham bets probs has a decent chance of beating them, especially if they can see the prices are shortening on the majority of your bets. Obviously it is ridiculously harsh stance particularly before the Festival and probs with other factors at play as Ista said but think it is important to mix your bets up with on the day racing and other sports even if you just lay your state on the exchange.

Oh you’re completely right RC. I did refer to this earlier in the chat.. I don’t do anywhere near as much day to day betting as I used to and I think this is now catching up with me. I have got to start putting more effort in on this front.

[Istabraq]

Just a quick question. Was just looking through my open bets on my now useless hills account. I have a number of envoi shiskin doubles however on the ‘open bet’ screen they are all showing the ‘returns’ to be the same as the ‘stake’. Presume this is just an admin error and would be paid out correctly but wondered if anyone has had similar?

This was the initial issue with Hills as raised by nortonscoin that kick started the discussion.
There is an error with their systems they don’t seem able to resolve/aren’t interested in resolving, several people have contacted them and been assured bets will settle as normal regardless of what the open bets say...

[Istabraq]

What accounts would people recommend on here? .

I’d open the lot Yorkhill, you can assume every one will get restricted/closed eventually so get as many open as you can and make good use of the choice while you have it...

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

Oh you’re completely right RC. I did refer to this earlier in the chat.. I don’t do anywhere near as much day to day betting as I used to and I think this is now catching up with me. I have got to start putting more effort in on this front.

Yeah but if you take that seriously and also do ok on your day to day that won’t help you too much. The biggest issue is consistently winning and the only remedy is to try to lose on purpose by laying off on the exchange. This will likely result in a small loss on the bet but as long as you are up overall across all mediums then it’s worth it. Obvs important that you keep accurate records to ensure that this is the case and it’s all worth the time and effort.

It makes me laugh when you see people on Twitter posting screen shots of their high annual profits with 365. You should be trying to minimise how much you are winning with any bookie. Whenever I have a decent win I make a load of mug bets to lay on the exchange.

[Kevloaf]

Yeah but if you take that seriously and also do ok on your day to day that won’t help you too much. The biggest issue is consistently winning and the only remedy is to try to lose on purpose by laying off on the exchange. This will likely result in a small loss on the bet but as long as you are up overall across all mediums then it’s worth it. Obvs important that you keep accurate records to ensure that this is the case and it’s all worth the time and effort.

It makes me laugh when you see people on Twitter posting screen shots of their high annual profits with 365. You should be trying to minimise how much you are winning with any bookie. Whenever I have a decent win I make a load of mug bets to lay on the exchange.

I'm not sure I fully agree. Losing on purpose to 'keep an account' by definition is bananas.

I'm up 5 figures with 365, and (in my opinion) don't place any "mug bets"


When they close me down, I'll move on.... until eventually I can only use the exchanges or shops.... and will need to be better than I am now.

Making your online account lose on purpose is not good maths.... and laying on the exchanges for a smaller loss, is a lot of effort, when if you put that time and focus elsewhere could be more worthwhile?


I don't specifically mean your method RC (which is well thought out and executed), which I know you've explained and I get.... I'm just talking more generally

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

I'm not sure I fully agree. Losing on purpose to 'keep an account' by definition is bananas.

I'm up 5 figures with 365, and (in my opinion) don't place any "mug bets"


When they close me down, I'll move on.... until eventually I can only use the exchanges or shops.... and will need to be better than I am now.

Making your online account lose on purpose is not good maths.... and laying on the exchanges for a smaller loss, is a lot of effort, when if you put that time and focus elsewhere could be more worthwhile?


I don't specifically mean your method RC (which is well thought out and executed), which I know you've explained and I get.... I'm just talking more generally

For sure the way I phrased it was a bit glib (obvs you are not supposed to be losing overall) but it was to accentuate the point that if you consistently win you are highly likely going to get restricted sooner rather than later. In my experience 365 is something of an outlier in terms of how much you can get away with and your example is interesting for sure. 5 figures profit is obviously great without getting an account closed and surely must be almost impossible with any other online bookie. There may be other factors at play such as % of turnover that means 365 are willing to give you a fair crack.

There do seem to be a higher number of members this year surprised about losing their accounts, and outside of 365 I don’t believe there is another way of giving you a good shot at keeping them open (if you are winning) for a decent length of time than what I am suggesting. I know many don’t have the option to keep opening new accounts and I personally think this tactic far exceeds being left with just shops and the exchange. Totally appreciate it’s not for everyone but I do think it is a viable alternative.

[Kevloaf]

Yeah that's all very fair Rhinestone_Cowboy - I think I'm just so resigned to losing it, and have already held the 365 one 12 months longer than I've have guess I'm no longer trying hard to "keep it".

For me personally it's all about different levels. I know I'll make money doing what I do, I've proven it over 10 years, but to get to the next level I'd need to be profitable without things like BOG, extra places and cashout... The latter is absolutely massive to my 'strategy' at the moment.

I'll may hay while the sun shines, but long term I know I need to get better.... or stop. For me, the laying of bets is too much effort for not enough gain when my focus should be to improve rather than exploit. Of course that's a personal preference and absolutel;y no guarentee I will or can!

[Rhinestone_Cowboy]

Yeah that's all very fair Rhinestone_Cowboy - I think I'm just so resigned to losing it, and have already held the 365 one 12 months longer than I've have guess I'm no longer trying hard to "keep it".

For me personally it's all about different levels. I know I'll make money doing what I do, I've proven it over 10 years, but to get to the next level I'd need to be profitable without things like BOG, extra places and cashout... The latter is absolutely massive to my 'strategy' at the moment.

I'll may hay while the sun shines, but long term I know I need to get better.... or stop. For me, the laying of bets is too much effort for not enough gain when my focus should be to improve rather than exploit. Of course that's a personal preference and absolutel;y no guarentee I will or can!

That all makes a lot of sense. I know that I am nowhere near a position where I could reach that level to be able to succeed without all the offers. I have no doubt that you are a hell of a lot closer to doing that. That said in terms of the average member on here I suspect there are more at my level than yours who would prefer to use whatever tactics they can to keep accounts open than be put in a situation where it is shops and Betfair or bust.

[Kevloaf]

That all makes a lot of sense. I know that I am nowhere near a position where I could reach that level to be able to succeed without all the offers. I have no doubt that you are a hell of a lot closer to doing that. That said in terms of the average member on here I suspect there are more at my level than yours who would prefer to use whatever tactics they can to keep accounts open than be put in a situation where it is shops and Betfair or bust.

All ends up, middle stump out of the ground. Absolutely right.,..and in reality I'm probably closer to packing it in than taking it to the next level

[thorne365]

I'm not sure I fully agree. Losing on purpose to 'keep an account' by definition is bananas.

I'm up 5 figures with 365, and (in my opinion) don't place any "mug bets"


When they close me down, I'll move on.... until eventually I can only use the exchanges or shops.... and will need to be better than I am now.

Making your online account lose on purpose is not good maths.... and laying on the exchanges for a smaller loss, is a lot of effort, when if you put that time and focus elsewhere could be more worthwhile?


I don't specifically mean your method RC (which is well thought out and executed), which I know you've explained and I get.... I'm just talking more generally

fwiw I think most bookies arrive at a punter profile very fast (single digit bet count) and then recalibrate relatively infrequently due to the sheer size of the customer base. Algorithms are weighted towards early life predictors too afaik. This explains why batches of people may get snipped in one go (its account review time) and why people can last longer at 365.

imo gaming your first few bets is very worthwhile

[Nortons who]

There may be new members on here who aren't too familiar with the reasons why bookmakers limit or close accounts.

The article linked below provides excellent explanations and background info. It also alludes to the current market perceptions that B365 are more tolerant of winning punters.

Why Do Betting Sites Limit Accounts And Should They Be Allowed To | Arbitrage, Matched Betting, Winning & Other Reasons For Limiting of Accounts | Online Betting UK

https://www.onlinebetting.org.uk/betting-guides/limiting-accounts.html