General Chat

[Quevega]

Charlie played a large part with Latest Exhibition, the video of the trainer laying it out was very useful.

I cashed the bumper winners also, but did re back Ferny Hollow through gritted teeth.

I also lost thousands when perming Mullins runners in tricasts and forecasts for the mares novice that Eglantine de seuil won.
I left her out for some reason.

And Concertista winning alone (absolutely mugged on the line) would have been plenty enough also, so a double whammy.
They were all massive prices on betfair ten minutes before the race.

[Kotkijet]

The Champion Chase was first run in 1959 so there's an argument that 2 miles isn't a traditional championship distance for chases.

Might not be that traditional but is still serves more of a purpose than two and a half miles. Can't imagine Native River winning a Champion Chase or Altior winning a Gold Cup.

.....but Aintree is muck and Cheltenham is for champions.

I suppose you could put the Ryanair on the April card but it would then be competing with the Silver Trophy and the Melling Chase. The hunters' meeting is probably best left to the hunters. Trying to think of where else one could shove the Ryanair chase...

[Hurdles or chasing]

Charlie played a large part with Latest Exhibition, the video of the trainer laying it out was very useful.

I cashed the bumper winners also, but did re back Ferny Hollow through gritted teeth.

I also lost thousands when perming Mullins runners in tricasts and forecasts for the mares novice that Eglantine de seuil won.
I left her out for some reason.

And Concertista winning alone (absolutely mugged on the line) would have been plenty enough also, so a double whammy.
They were all massive prices on betfair ten minutes before the race.

Yeah that's the man. Great shout Charlie I remember watching that video he posted the link.

Had Concertista that day aswell Think she went off 66s somehow even though even though there was plenty of strong word about her. Tricasts are well worth doing. Hard to land obviously but huge payout. The Pertemps this year was definitely on the cards from Xmas

[Istabraq]

It's the Ryanair that evolved from the Cathcart (conditions race for novice and second season chasers) in 2005. I'm fairly sure that the Plate has always been a handicap, originally the Mildmay of Flete.

Yes you're right Archie, it was the Cathcart I was thinking of

[Kautostar]

Might not be that traditional but is still serves more of a purpose than two and a half miles. Can't imagine Native River winning a Champion Chase or Altior winning a Gold Cup.


I suppose you could put the Ryanair on the April card but it would then be competing with the Silver Trophy and the Melling Chase. The hunters' meeting is probably best left to the hunters. Trying to think of where else one could shove the Ryanair chase...

The Ryanair is here to stay, you’ll grow to like it eventually

[Kautostar]

I don’t buy into all this it’s not traditional argument. If you have a quality horse that doesn’t quite stay 3 miles and it’s not quick enough for 2, then what is wrong with being a champion at 2m4f?

[Istabraq]

I don’t buy into all this it’s not traditional argument. If you have a quality horse that doesn’t quite stay 3 miles and it’s not quick enough for 2, then what is wrong with being a champion at 2m4f?

I too can see both sides of the argument but there's no getting away from the fact their presence detracts from other races, the Arkle for example regularly has no more than 6/7 runners since the Marsh was created.
The concern for me with dilution is where does it end, if horses don't quite get home over 20f should they create an 18f championship race, or 24f for those who don't quite get the Gold Cup trip...

[Quevega]

I don’t buy into all this it’s not traditional argument. If you have a quality horse that doesn’t quite stay 3 miles and it’s not quick enough for 2, then what is wrong with being a champion at 2m4f?

When you say doesn't quite stay. & When you say not quite quick enough.

What does this mean in reality ?

The only Fact is that It's got beat by another horse or two on the day ?

They rarely just stop running and quit. They just get beat sometimes.

When a trainer says a horse didn't stay, what is he actually saying ?

The fact is that they just weren't as good as another horse on the day, in those conditions, at that pace etc etc.....

Kotkijet was trying to illustrate the point, with more detail.

What Ista is saying is that you can go on forever with the distances.

Having said all that, I don't mind all the races. Trainer cliched/excuses get on my tits though.

[archie]

If Cheltenham is solely for 'champions' at 'traditional' distances, it could be done in a day.

Supreme
Ballymore
Arkle
RSA
Champion Hurdle
Champion Chase
Gold Cup
Stayers Hurdle

[Quevega]

I know it's a flat race, but the Arc is a good example of this.

Persian King led at a steady gallop, and ended up finishing third.
Most commentators and connections when asked after the race, came up with "he didn't quite stay" comments.

It's just a lazy excuse.
When the facts are, that not every horse can win every race. They will lose sometimes, and for every winner there are several losers.

But to suggest he didn't stay when he beat several "proven" stayers, is a nonsense.

[Quevega]

If Cheltenham is solely for 'champions' at 'traditional' distances, it could be done in a day.

Supreme
Ballymore
Arkle
RSA
Champion Hurdle
Champion Chase
Gold Cup
Stayers Hurdle

Then we could have a mares version of all them.
And a handicap version.
Throw in 2 bumpers and a cross country and foxhunters and you've got a festival.

[Istabraq]

If Cheltenham is solely for 'champions' at 'traditional' distances, it could be done in a day.

Supreme
Ballymore
Arkle
RSA
Champion Hurdle
Champion Chase
Gold Cup
Stayers Hurdle

Where's the 4 miler archie ?
Oldest race of the festival is it not ?
And as Q says they can create a Mares 4 miler, a handicap 4 miler, a 4 miler for bay geldings born on a Tuesday....

[Quevega]

I'd like to see a race for horses that refuse to run.
Like when the cyclists piss about on the velodrome for 2 laps then try and cycle off near the end.

[JackieMoon33]

I'd like to see a race for horses that refuse to run.
Like when the cyclists piss about on the velodrome for 2 laps then try and cycle off near the end.

Mad Moose ante post favourite?

[Kautostar]

When you say doesn't quite stay. & When you say not quite quick enough.

What does this mean in reality ?

The only Fact is that It's got beat by another horse or two on the day ?

They rarely just stop running and quit. They just get beat sometimes.

When a trainer says a horse didn't stay, what is he actually saying ?

The fact is that they just weren't as good as another horse on the day, in those conditions, at that pace etc etc.....

Kotkijet was trying to illustrate the point, with more detail.

What Ista is saying is that you can go on forever with the distances.

Having said all that, I don't mind all the races. Trainer cliched/excuses get on my tits though.

I get what you are saying but there’s lots of horses that can win over 3miles when the conditions are right, weaker opposition or race run to suit but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they stay well enough over the 3miles and 2 and a half is their optimum trip. Why should Ryanair horses be forced into the gold cup even though their optimum is over shorter because that distance isn’t traditional?

Allaho is a prime example of a horse that doesn’t quite see out 3 miles well enough and wouldn’t be fast enough for 2. I would also argue that vautour is a Ryanair horse who’s optimum was over the middle distance. My point is I don’t see why having a middle distance championship is so wrong, it’s a big jump between 2 and 3 miles. Nobody crabs flat horses who are 6f specialists and don’t quite see out the 7f so surely this Ryanair bashing and traditional crap is out of date. Move with the times people