General Chat

[FinalFurlong91]

Yep. Can't see Epatante staying 2 1/2m at Cheltenham one bit especially on first day when ground is at its softest. She'll stick to the Churdle or more likely be saved for Aintree. No reason at all to sway from Mares Hurdle for Marie's Rock as this year's winner. Can't see the sense in that at all. Would be very 'unlike' Henderson as well. He always sticks to what he and his horses know best.

Agreed

Maries rock outstayed her at punchestown when Stormy Ireland made it a test

She looked good at Aintree but that race seemed to fall apart and isn't form I trust

I don't think any of zanahiyr, monmiral or mcfabulous ran to form that day

Unless they try Marie's rock at 3 miles and she wins a grade 1 i cant see her in the stayers

She actually won the mares pretty easily last season, nico played his hand as late as he dared she had way too much boot for queens brook and was going away at the line

The pornstar looks her main danger, she looks to have a huge engine and will be way better going left handed

[Exar Essay]

Was having a look at Bumper stuff and came across a post from nortonscoin200 from this time last year (15th October to be precise). The post included all horses available to bet on from odds checker. Of those horses, I think, only American Mike even ran! Shows how unnecessary it is to get involved at this stage of the year, with the exception of Gordon's Down Royal Horse. I say that having backed 6 already ... planning to cash out some, but still ...

The list for anyone interested:

10-1 Classic Getaway 125
12-1 Pink in the Park 115
12-1 Grangeclare West 115
20-1 American Mike
20-1 Cool Survivor
20-1 Hunters Yarn 100
20-1 Dark Raven 121
25-1 I Am Maximus 125
25-1 Guily Billy (going hurdling says Henry)
25-1 Nikini 100
25-1 Jonbon 124
25-1 Hob House 106
25-1 Nos Na Gaoithe 99
25-1 Journey With Me 131
25-1 Dysart Dynamo 132
33-1 Timeforatune 120
33-1 Ashroe Diamond 113
33-1 Level Neverending 100
33-1 Au Fleuron 103
33-1 Glowing Account (Willie)
40-1 Champ Kiely 121
40-1 Go Dante 118
40-1 Non Binding 8 (coughed)
50-1 Might Potter 103
66-1 Wells Glory 109
100-1 Big Changes 92
100-1 Best Pal 82
100-1 Bolintlea 100

[ComplyOrDie]

Yep. Can't see Epatante staying 2 1/2m at Cheltenham one bit especially on first day when ground is at its softest. She'll stick to the Churdle or more likely be saved for Aintree. No reason at all to sway from Mares Hurdle for Marie's Rock as this year's winner. Can't see the sense in that at all. Would be very 'unlike' Henderson as well. He always sticks to what he and his horses know best.

I disagree about Epatante. It was her second try over 2m4f at Punchestown, and she had no break in between. She went Cheltenham, Aintree, Punchestown, all at the top level, Marie's Rock went there on the back of a break from Cheltenham, as did Stormy Ireland.

I'd say Epatantes best form is at Cheltenham, and her Champion Hurdle form (albeit over 2m) is head and shoulders above what Marie's Rock has beat in her career so far. She's won and placed twice in Champion Hurdles. Her close form ties with Honeysuckle have her ahead of the other mares, IMO. I believe the Mares Hurdle last season was a weak enough race, and still believe if Telmesomethinggirl had not been brought down she would have likely won. You bring Epatante into the race and you have that class angle. Brandy Love could also be absolutely anything. Not forgetting Love Envoi, who I know you like too. Marie's Rock is vulnerable this season, if they all turn up.

[nortonscoin200]

I disagree about Epatante. It was her second try over 2m4f at Punchestown, and she had no break in between. She went Cheltenham, Aintree, Punchestown, all at the top level, Marie's Rock went there on the back of a break from Cheltenham, as did Stormy Ireland.

I'd say Epatantes best form is at Cheltenham, and her Champion Hurdle form (albeit over 2m) is head and shoulders above what Marie's Rock has beat in her career so far. She's won and placed twice in Champion Hurdles. Her close form ties with Honeysuckle have her ahead of the other mares, IMO. I believe the Mares Hurdle last season was a weak enough race, and still believe if Telmesomethinggirl had not been brought down she would have likely won. You bring Epatante into the race and you have that class angle. Brandy Love could also be absolutely anything. Not forgetting Love Envoi, who I know you like too. Marie's Rock is vulnerable this season, if they all turn up.

Henderson has always insisted Epatante is an out-and-out two miler. Just can’t see anything to make him change his mind.

She’ll have another crack at the CH or she won’t show up, imo.

[fatherjohn]

Henderson has always insisted Epatante is an out-and-out two miler. Just can’t see anything to make him change his mind.

She’ll have another crack at the CH or she won’t show up, imo.

this is what hendo said. it definitely says he is cons8dering the mares hurdle so think we have to assume it is an option until proved otherwise. based on liklihood of her not showing she could beat CH or honeysuckle (which she never has) feels like it's the more likely option

https://twitter.com/RoadCheltenham/status/1574094638591447041?t=KdYRxflddTajWNzPdrouPA&s=19

[ComplyOrDie]

Henderson has always insisted Epatante is an out-and-out two miler. Just can’t see anything to make him change his mind.

The only problem with that theory is that she's already run twice beyond 2m now.

So he's had a change of mind, has he not?

[nortonscoin200]

The only problem with that theory is that she's already run twice beyond 2m now.

So he's had a change of mind, has he not?

I don’t think he will have had a change of mind when it comes to Cheltenham next March,

Yes, she won over two-and-a-half miles at Aintree but that trip bears little comparison to the Mares Hurdle on day 1 of the Fez.

She was subsequently beaten over 2m 3f at Punchestown by Marie’s Rock and Stormy Ireland.

I’m convinced Hendo will revert to the tried and tested next March with a horse who was only a 31/2 length runner up in the Champion Hurdle this year.

She’s run 3 times in the CH and never been worse than third.

The only time she didn’t hit the frame at the Fez was over 2m 1f.

Not saying the extra half furlong cost her in the MNH but - can you really tell me one victory over an extended trip on Aintree’s flat track outweighs what she is still capable of over the minimum trip.

I respect your opinion guys but afraid I find the possibility of her going to the MH unlikely.

[Lobos]

Henderson has always insisted Epatante is an out-and-out two miler. Just can’t see anything to make him change his mind.

She’ll have another crack at the CH or she won’t show up, imo.

This is where I'm at. Don't see her winning Mares at Cheltenham, don't see her going Churdle if CH and Honey make it there unbeaten. Aintree will end up her big target imo.

[Craigy14]

This is where I'm at. Don't see her winning Mares at Cheltenham, don't see her going Churdle if CH and Honey make it there unbeaten. Aintree will end up her big target imo.

I don’t see her winning either but I agree she won’t go Champion Hurdle if Constitution Hill and Honeysuckle turn up unbeaten. I do think she’ll go for the mares if it does play out like that.

She has top class Cheltenham form as COD says.

[FinalFurlong91]

I disagree about Epatante. It was her second try over 2m4f at Punchestown, and she had no break in between. She went Cheltenham, Aintree, Punchestown, all at the top level, Marie's Rock went there on the back of a break from Cheltenham, as did Stormy Ireland.

I'd say Epatantes best form is at Cheltenham, and her Champion Hurdle form (albeit over 2m) is head and shoulders above what Marie's Rock has beat in her career so far. She's won and placed twice in Champion Hurdles. Her close form ties with Honeysuckle have her ahead of the other mares, IMO. I believe the Mares Hurdle last season was a weak enough race, and still believe if Telmesomethinggirl had not been brought down she would have likely won. You bring Epatante into the race and you have that class angle. Brandy Love could also be absolutely anything. Not forgetting Love Envoi, who I know you like too. Marie's Rock is vulnerable this season, if they all turn up.

Will she stay 2m4f at Cheltenham in a strongly run race?

Her Aintree win was slowly run and turned into a sprint on a flat track

I can't see her getting up the hill over 2m4f at Cheltenham

Tmsg was cruising when she fell but so were queens brook and Marie's rock so we can't say If she'd have won or not

Brandy love for me is the one that could wipe the floor with them

Don't rate Love envoi personally think she won a very poor mares novice. Was firmly put in her place at punchestown.

[Lobos]

Love Envoi should not be underestimated. She was over the top at Punchestown and is far better than that showing as reported by her connections. She won the MNH very easily even after getting worked up going down to the start and being keen early on. She has a high cruising speed and travels and jumps beautifully. She is very highly rated and they hope to go down the Champion Hurdle route with her next season should she continue her progress. She is a seriously good mare.

[ComplyOrDie]

The only time she didn’t hit the frame at the Fez was over 2m 1f.

Not saying the extra half furlong cost her in the MNH but - can you really tell me one victory over an extended trip on Aintree’s flat track outweighs what she is still capable of over the minimum trip.

She had her jabs late, and from what I remember of the situation they believe it affected her performance. I'd say it had nothing to do with half a furlong.

I'm not saying the Aintree win outweighs what she's achieved over the minimum trip, but she's tried twice to crack Honeysuckle, and failed, her stablemate (Constitution Hill) is the current market favourite for the Champion Hurdle too. She would be the class angle in the Mares Hurdle and her most likely chance of victory.

It's fair to say you don't believe she would get the trip at Cheltenham and I get that angle, but it's nothing to do with Henderson, he's already mentioned the Mares being an option and given her two runs over similar trips previously.

[ComplyOrDie]

Will she stay 2m4f at Cheltenham in a strongly run race?

This is the one question everyone has, you either believe she will and have her as a bet or you don't and leave her alone, and that I can absolutely understand, but this is the only question mark about her for the race, IMO.

She travelled sweetly in the Champion Hurdle races she's run in and the Aintree Hurdle that I feel if she's played late she can scoot away from them, personally.

Only another 5 months to find out

[Quevega]

I don’t think he will have had a change of mind when it comes to Cheltenham next March,

Yes, she won over two-and-a-half miles at Aintree but that trip bears little comparison to the Mares Hurdle on day 1 of the Fez.

She was subsequently beaten over 2m 3f at Punchestown by Marie’s Rock and Stormy Ireland.

I’m convinced Hendo will revert to the tried and tested next March with a horse who was only a 31/2 length runner up in the Champion Hurdle this year.

She’s run 3 times in the CH and never been worse than third.

The only time she didn’t hit the frame at the Fez was over 2m 1f.

Not saying the extra half furlong cost her in the MNH but - can you really tell me one victory over an extended trip on Aintree’s flat track outweighs what she is still capable of over the minimum trip.

I respect your opinion guys but afraid I find the possibility of her going to the MH unlikely.

Interesting Fact for you NC.

The Mares Hurdle at Cheltenham over 2m 4f vs The Aintree Hurdle over 2m 4f.

Fastest Aintree hurdle to slowest 4:48 - 5:10

Although Aintree is often referred to as a flatter track.
The comparative times make interesting reading.

The Mares at Cheltenham is on average ran around 10-15 seconds quicker.

Obviously the greatest horse ever beat 4:48 at Cheltenham four times and completed the course in 4:31 in 2012.

Must be a few little hills at Aintree I reckon.

[nortonscoin200]

Quevega Haha - so where will Epatante turn up?

Champion Hurdle
Mares Hurdle
Stay in her box and wait for the mountains of Aintree.

The bet I most fancy is Epatante to place in the CH.