General Chat

[Odin]

Corr you've opened a can of worms here ...

You're probably not wrong - deleted it so we don't get off topic, but stand by my view that mass gatherings should already have been stopped until we know the severity of this new variant. The second we prove it's more like the common cold (which I believe btw), they should be allowed again.

[Many Clouds]

You're probably not wrong - deleted it so we don't get off topic, but stand by my view that mass gatherings should already have been stopped until we know the severity of this new variant. The second we prove it's more like the common cold (which I believe btw), they should be allowed again.

I respect you're right to an opinion but this is exactly the kind of thinking that will make us continue to be in this cycle for years to come. I don't think race courses are flush with money especially after last year. So cancelling any mass gatherings when there's a suspected new variant (which will happen a lot) is just madness, wouldn't be a suprise to see some or even all end up permanently closed if they don't know they could even stage an event a week in advance because a variant comes along and they have to cancel just incase. Same would go for the majority of sports. In football most lower league clubs would end up folding, probably only the top end would survive.

[Odin]

Ok so just to clarify, without getting into a debate (I won't say any more after this as we all have different views and this is a horse racing forum, not a political place). My full view, which I'm not sure came across before is:

This variant is something like 6 times more contagious than delta so greater restrictions are needed. If mass gatherings had been stopped with government subsidies for last week and this week, that would have been enough for life to go on basically as normal (bar sporting events, concerts, night clubs) whilst still figuring out how good/bad this virus was for the course of the pandemic. The way we've done it, case numbers are massive which means the NHS has to care for excessive amounts of covid cases reducing their ability to work on a&e cases/cancer/other such illnesses which I think we all agree are important and that generally is why lockdowns happen. I don't want to see any race course, football club or hospitality place go bust but I think 2 week or slightly longer targeted subsidies are much better than 2 weeks of uncertainty followed by a lockdown which is what we appear to be about to get.

As an aside, this variant is so contagious that I'm really hopeful it will be the beginning of the end of covid as a deadly virus. Usually as they get more contagious they get less lethal so fingers crossed.

Ok thats all from me. Hopefully, not too controversial and we can get back to the racing now. Sorry to anyone who is offended by what I've said - it's easier for me to apologize in advance than get into a debate. We're all entitled to our beliefs

[Atlantic Viking]

The way we've done it, case numbers are massive which means the NHS has to care for excessive amounts of covid cases reducing their ability to work on a&e cases/cancer/other such illnesses which I think we all agree are important and that generally is why lockdowns happen.

Hospitals are currently struggling with a number of things and unlike horse racing I know a little bit on what i'm talking about here. I wouldn't comment too much on Omicron because I don't feel I know enough about it but from what I do, I don't feel comfortable that a lockdown is the right approach at this moment in time on the evidence so far and taking the wider impact lockdowns have into consideration, of which there are many but mental health is one i'm particularly concerned about. I think the government is doing the right thing for now in waiting for further evidence. If it turned out to be no worse than the 'common cold' then ultimately it wouldn't matter how contagious it was. I feel the current guidance of encouraging/enforcing mask wearing alongside the booster programme is proportionate for now. All my own opinion though, I do completely understand where you're coming from even if I don't necessarily agree with it, it's not a call i'd like to make.

Back to hospitals, they're struggling due to a mix of things it'd take forever to cover, but at the head of the market you have:
- The system already struggling before anyone had even heard of covid.
- Unvaccinated patients, overwhelmingly from 'at risk' groups. I don't support mandatory vaccination as fundamentally I think it's wrong and not a path i'd be comfortable society setting off down, but there's no getting away from the pressure unvaccinated patients are putting hospitals under. The NHS is well versed in 'winter pressures', if you're in an 'at risk' group you almost certainly get an annual invite for a flu vaccination. You almost certainly go and get it too.
- GPs not carrying out enough face to face appointments leading to far too many people turning up in A&E who simply don't need to be there (For a good example of people turning up who don't need to be there, you actually see a weird lull around this time of year as people are too busy sorting Christmas stuff) or genuinely ill people turning up whose diagnosis' should have been made at the primary care stage.
- General hangover from earlier in the pandemic, previous lockdowns/restrictions etc... e.g. patients with issues that would otherwise have been identified earlier, patients with difficulties from or with issues exacerbated by previous covid illness.

I'll also add that we can cry from every rooftop in the land about lack of investment, mismanagement etc... and probably more often than not, rightly so. But there's no shortage of other things at play too, sooner or later as a nation we're going to have to start having a proper conversation about obesity in particular.

[Quevega]

The Welsh Governments decision to stop mass gatherings, even outdoors seems an odd choice, and stinks of just tinkering for tinkering's sake.
Especially when Pubs and other hospitality, social indoor gathering places are still open.
If I was due to go the the Welsh National with some mates, I'd probably go to the pub to watch it instead.

[Lobos]

The Welsh Governments decision to stop mass gatherings, even outdoors seems an odd choice, and stinks of just tinkering for tinkering's sake.
Especially when Pubs and other hospitality, social indoor gathering places are still open.
If I was due to go the the Welsh National with some mates, I'd probably go to the pub to watch it instead.

No logic to that at all !??

[FinalFurlong91]

The Welsh Governments decision to stop mass gatherings, even outdoors seems an odd choice, and stinks of just tinkering for tinkering's sake.
Especially when Pubs and other hospitality, social indoor gathering places are still open.
If I was due to go the the Welsh National with some mates, I'd probably go to the pub to watch it instead.

Ridiculous that pubs are open but can't go to an open air race meeting

Absolute farce

[Many Clouds]

- Unvaccinated patients, overwhelmingly from 'at risk' groups. I don't support mandatory vaccination as fundamentally I think it's wrong and not a path i'd be comfortable society setting off down, but there's no getting away from the pressure unvaccinated patients are putting hospitals under. The NHS is well versed in 'winter pressures', if you're in an 'at risk' group you almost certainly get an annual invite for a flu vaccination. You almost certainly go and get it too.

I agree with alot of what you've said but this just simply isn't true. I have been watching the stats produced for UK hospitalisations for weeks and the majority that need emergency care and and at least an overnight stay is from the vaccinated group not the unvaccinated. Just needed to pull you up on that because it's one thing that bugs me about the politicians and these celebrity Dr's (such as Hilary) who spout off 90% of people in hospital are unvaccinated bla bla to try and demonise people who are unvaccinated and to coerce more people into getting boosters when it's just not even remotely true.

[robith]

Ridiculous that pubs are open but can't go to an open air race meeting

Absolute farce

It's cos only financial compensation can come from Westminster, and UKG doesn't want hospitality to close cos they don't want to pick up the tab.

[Quevega]

I agree with alot of what you've said but this just simply isn't true. I have been watching the stats produced for UK hospitalisations for weeks and the majority that need emergency care and and at least an overnight stay is from the vaccinated group not the unvaccinated. Just needed to pull you up on that because it's one thing that bugs me about the politicians and these celebrity Dr's (such as Hilary) who spout off 90% of people in hospital are unvaccinated bla bla to try and demonise people who are unvaccinated and to coerce more people into getting boosters when it's just not even remotely true.

To counter this though.
A lot of the vaccinated with covid were admitted for other reasons, or even tested positive whilst being admitted.

[archie]

I agree with alot of what you've said but this just simply isn't true. I have been watching the stats produced for UK hospitalisations for weeks and the majority that need emergency care and and at least an overnight stay is from the vaccinated group not the unvaccinated. Just needed to pull you up on that because it's one thing that bugs me about the politicians and these celebrity Dr's (such as Hilary) who spout off 90% of people in hospital are unvaccinated bla bla to try and demonise people who are unvaccinated and to coerce more people into getting boosters when it's just not even remotely true.

https://news.sky.com/story/doctor-dismantles-typical-covid-vaccine-hesitancy-arguments-by-putting-forward-alternative-scenario-12501207

Dr Patrick said that it is "mostly unvaccinated people" that he sees in ICU, adding: "The vast, vast majority are unvaccinated"

[Many Clouds]

https://news.sky.com/story/doctor-dismantles-typical-covid-vaccine-hesitancy-arguments-by-putting-forward-alternative-scenario-12501207

Dr Patrick said that it is "mostly unvaccinated people" that he sees in ICU, adding: "The vast, vast majority are unvaccinated"

Just look at the official stats it doesn't add up, none of it does and I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe a word Sky News/BBC and the rest of the main stream media say and whoever they get to come on to speak for them. Especially after they have already been shown to have paid actors playing covid victims in hospital etc It's pure propoganda in my eyes to coerce people into vaccination and sadly I think ultimately will lead to them trying to mandate it. And it will gain some support from people who have been scared senseless by this biased media (who signed the trusted media declaration conveniently right as the vaccine rollout started) over a virus that has a 99.8% survival rat overall.

Not a peep in nearly two years about the use of early treatment which has been used in different countries around the world, not even an encouragement for people to take more Vitimins to boost their immune system. Not a peep over the last year about the horrendous amount of deaths and adverse reactions from the vaccine either. Complete and utter censorship in the media and on social media of anyone who voices concerns.

If anyone wants to speak about any of this then maybe set up a thread in general chat or can message me direct. Don't want to clog up this thread with it if it's not welcome, which I totally understand.

[Quevega]

Just look at the official stats it doesn't add up, none of it does and I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe a word Sky News/BBC and the rest of the main stream media say and whoever they get to come on to speak for them. Especially after they have already been shown to have paid actors playing covid victims in hospital etc It's pure propoganda in my eyes to coerce people into vaccination and sadly I think ultimately will lead to them trying to mandate it. And it will gain some support from people who have been scared senseless by this biased media (who signed the trusted media declaration conveniently right as the vaccine rollout started) over a virus that has a 99.8% survival rat overall.

Not a peep in nearly two years about the use of early treatment which has been used in different countries around the world, not even an encouragement for people to take more Vitimins to boost their immune system. Not a peep over the last year about the horrendous amount of deaths and adverse reactions from the vaccine either. Complete and utter censorship in the media and on social media of anyone who voices concerns.

If anyone wants to speak about any of this then maybe set up a thread in general chat or can message me direct. Don't want to clog up this thread with it if it's not welcome, which I totally understand.

Someone's a little mixed up in the head and been watching the wrong type of stuff. Me thinks

There's plenty of threads for you to talk bollocks in, all over the internet.

Let's just keep this forum to talking bollocks about the horse's.
I reckon.

Fucking vitamins !!
Silly Billy.

[Exar Essay]

Having a look at the markets afresh today and noted there are 6 races with favourites at 2/1 or less which is remarkable at this time of the year. I can't recall a market like this before, can anyone else?

I can see from bets placed this time last year that Shishkin, Easysland and Envoi were 2/1 or less but can't see any others.

[jack1092]

I agree with alot of what you've said but this just simply isn't true. I have been watching the stats produced for UK hospitalisations for weeks and the majority that need emergency care and and at least an overnight stay is from the vaccinated group not the unvaccinated. Just needed to pull you up on that because it's one thing that bugs me about the politicians and these celebrity Dr's (such as Hilary) who spout off 90% of people in hospital are unvaccinated bla bla to try and demonise people who are unvaccinated and to coerce more people into getting boosters when it's just not even remotely true.

65% are unvaccinated in NI.

What if the 65% got vaccinated? Based on the 65% that would be 65% of the 65% and so on.....