General Chat

[Burrough Hill Man]

Just wondering if anyone takes breeding into consideration when trying to narrow down selections and if so how far do you go back.
A few examples I've come across are in the Ultma Whistle Stop Tours dam sire is Presenting who is 0-10 and Henry's Friend's dam sire is Milan who is 0-12.
Ballyburn's dam sire is Old Vic who is 0-6. There are others in different races but I think you get where I'm coming from.
Would that put you off ?

[Yosser]

It's only going to get worse folks. The bookies are the reason this is my last Cheltenham after booking the week off and betting on it for the past 15 years or so. They are just closing all the doors every year. God knows what it will look like this time next season. They are getting away with murder and being allowed to do it. Restrictions will get tighter, prices will get shorter and these terms will become more.

[thorne365]

There's a setting in their system that is used to stamp the places on a bet (used for golf and ap racing normally) - usually its someone's job to move from it being enabled (antepost) to disabled at post decs (racing rules) - I'd guess someone has already done this and is trading the races more in line with race day procedure, in which case you'll automatically get the day of race terms. Even if that's not the case I'd be 99.99% sure it would be amended - its definitely happened to me in the past at (probably) Epsom or Royal ascot

[Istabraq]

I do get what you're saying Ista.
And it makes sense, and maybe PP are just edging their bets in case the actual declarations on some handicaps are below the 16. ?
Scummy stuff though if you ask me.

As I said I'd like to know how it plays out so please let us know.
Could always ask the Gambling Commission but they're likely to be busy working out how much we can all afford to bet...

[Quevega]

I do get what you're saying Ista.
And it makes sense, and maybe PP are just edging their bets in case the actual declarations on some handicaps are below the 16. ?
Scummy stuff though if you ask me.

[Quevega]

I believe so yes.
If bookies settle bets that differ with the rules of racing I would expect them to have to provide clear explanation on the betslip, I'm not sure by simply saying '3 places' is sufficient.
It's a bit like getting a speeding ticket for doing 50mph on a 40mph duel carriageway where you expect the limit to be 60mph and there are no 40mph signs...

Yes but when they price a market up the prices are usually related to the place terms, as you know.
So the price on an outsider with 3 places up for grabs will be shorter than it would be for only 2 places, if only 7 runners for example.

The sign analogy doesn't work in this respect as on my betslip for the arkle there is a clear sign that they are only paying me 2 places.

[Istabraq]

That should 8 or more get declared - any bets placed under these current terms would then get paid on three places ?

.

I believe so yes.
If bookies settle bets that differ with the rules of racing I would expect them to have to provide clear explanation on the betslip, I'm not sure by simply saying '3 places' is sufficient.
It's a bit like getting a speeding ticket for doing 50mph on a 40mph duel carriageway where you expect the limit to be 60mph and there are no 40mph signs...

[Quevega]

I'm not sure they can, someone far cleverer than me may well know.
If this isn't an error I wonder what place terms they'll settle on if there are 16+ in the Coral Cup because at no point would there ever have been few enough numbers for anyone to quote reduced places.
I'd be interested to know the answer, though I'll 100% forget to bother checking...

Is it your understanding then that......

Using the example of the arkle that has 9 runners still entered.
Even though they are offering only 2 places each way terms right now, at the prices listed ?

That should 8 or more get declared - any bets placed under these current terms would then get paid on three places ?

I'd doubt that personally as I'd expect that the prices listed account for the places on offer.

[Istabraq]

The issue here is they obviously can offer the terms of their choosing prior to declarations.

I'm not sure they can, someone far cleverer than me may well know.
If this isn't an error I wonder what place terms they'll settle on if there are 16+ in the Coral Cup because at no point would there ever have been few enough numbers for anyone to quote reduced places.
I'd be interested to know the answer, though I'll 100% forget to bother checking...

[Quevega]

I saw the Arkle market earlier this week (pre decs) firms were quoting 2 places despite there being plenty more entered, I don’t recall seeing that before, but the Coral Cup will 100% have 16 or more runners, no bookie can offer less than 4 places.
The Ultima is a fair point, an unusual situation though I’m not sure what the max field is…

The issue here is they obviously can offer the terms of their choosing prior to declarations, which is why many have opted for 2 places only - on races where there are still 8 or more.
They are expecting that there will be less come the day. Which is fine.

But I have not seen them do it with the big field handicaps before and they have only just done this as I've had bets with them at 5 places in the last few weeks.

I hope Paddy's have made an error myself, we'll see.

There are 3 or 4 handicaps that may be less than 16 on the day this year - the ultima was just an example.

[Istabraq]

Not antepost and NRNB it's not.

There are still 8 or more left in some races and they're all offering 2 places only.

They are just being dirty bastards, and also they may be factoring the lack of full fields come the day.

The big advantage we have this year if the Ultima just as an example ends up with just 14 or 15 is some of them have been offering us 5 places.

I saw the Arkle market earlier this week (pre decs) firms were quoting 2 places despite there being plenty more entered, I don’t recall seeing that before, but the Coral Cup will 100% have 16 or more runners, no bookie can offer less than 4 places.
The Ultima is a fair point, an unusual situation though I’m not sure what the max field is…

[Quevega]

They won’t be up to anything, it’ll be an error.
16+ runners in a handicap pays 4 places in rules of racing, they can offer more places but not less…

Not antepost and NRNB it's not.

There are still 8 or more left in some races and they're all offering 2 places only.

They are just being dirty bastards, and also they may be factoring the lack of full fields come the day.

The big advantage we have this year if the Ultima just as an example ends up with just 14 or 15 is some of them have been offering us 5 places.

[Istabraq]

HEADS UP.

Just noticed PP NRNB market for the Coral cup is 3 places only - sneaky cunts.
Maybe be extra careful if they're up to this sort of shit.
Hopefully an error otherwise its pretty naughty stuff.

Looks like it's on all handicaps.

They won’t be up to anything, it’ll be an error.
16+ runners in a handicap pays 4 places in rules of racing, they can offer more places but not less…

[Quevega]

HEADS UP.

Just noticed PP NRNB market for the Coral cup is 3 places only - sneaky cunts.
Maybe be extra careful if they're up to this sort of shit.
Hopefully an error otherwise its pretty naughty stuff.

Looks like it's on all handicaps.

[Big Bucks]

Sky seem to be running Day behind, got my Day 1 Nrnb back