General Chat

[Quevega]

Do you still need 4 chase runs to run in the novice hcap or is that just for novices running in non hcaps? I assumed the normal 3 runs would apply here and 4 for the non novice hcaps?

I wondered this, but haven't seen anything confirming one way or the other.

[Exar Essay]

I wondered this, but haven't seen anything confirming one way or the other.

To be fair, the jockey club have been relatively clear on this. The increased number of runs will only apply to non-novice handicaps. So the NHC (and Turners) should be 3 prior runs only.

[Quevega]

To be fair, the jockey club have been relatively clear on this. The increased number of runs will only apply to non-novice handicaps. So the NHC (and Turners) should be 3 prior runs only.

must have missed that part.

[ComplyOrDie]

I can't get my head around those that think turning the XC into a Handicap is a bad idea.

I agree with this.

This is the one race I think did need a change, and they done the correct thing making it a handicap.

[Runragged]

It's worth remembering that this is a UK based festival that has suffered at the hands of the dominant Irish raiders. I love them all, but there is no doubt that these changes are a much needed help to the UK trainers and connections. To give them a better chance of Festival glory that helps any yard going forward.
The Irish National is of no real consequence to the UK trainers, few have any interest going up against half a dozen Mullins horses and the Elliot battalion anyway.

The issue might be that the UK horse population has got so sparse that they still struggle to fill the races in the short term anyhow.
But the hope is that over time the UK yards can get horses into these new/refreshed races and be competitive.

Maybe, though it's a shame we have to decrease the quality of the racing for that to happen rather than look at other ways of improving the standard of UK racing.

[Quevega]

Maybe, though it's a shame we have to decrease the quality of the racing for that to happen rather than look at other ways of improving the standard of UK racing.

I understand that element but the meeting has to be designed to suit the population of horses. And to offer competitive racing for the audience.

The graded chases in the festival and throughout the season are so often suffering from small field sizes and uncompetitive races and the graded novice races are often the worse affected.
So they simply have to reduce the opportunities for these top stables and horses to dodge each other and mop up easy money, otherwise it's self perpetuating.
It's ok for some (the elite minority) but the rest and more importantly the Sporting spectacle suffers.

If all races consisted of odds on shots and horses winning easily all the time then it wouldn't take long for the game to die.
It's why handicaps exist and what the Sport's foundations are built upon.

To add to this, I'd argue that the old Novices handicap was much more of a spectacle and betting proposition than most recent Turners renewals.
I think this forum is biased because of it's very nature really, as a four runner novice race when you have an interest in one or more of the runners at bigger odds is obviously going to carry more interest than it would for the punters who turn up to bet Cheltenham week.

But it's these punters that are the majority, we are just a small grain of sand on the internet talking bollocks about this meeting all fucking year.

[Runragged]

I can't get my head around those that think turning the XC into a Handicap is a bad idea.
Except for the selfish insular angle of the antepost punter of course

Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?

[Fouroverthrutwo]

To be fair, the jockey club have been relatively clear on this. The increased number of runs will only apply to non-novice handicaps. So the NHC (and Turners) should be 3 prior runs only.

I don't think that's correct Exar Essay!

Have a butchers at this and let me know if I'm wrong please!

https://www.facebook.com/TheJockeyClub1750/videos/cheltenham-festival-racing-changes-2025/509388285359025/

[Yosser]

Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?

I am quite interested in the XC now it's back to a handicap. It's a whole new batch of form lines to look at and it brings in the potential French army of excellent XC chasers into the mix. From a betting point of view it's a kick in the dick because it was a pretty easy race to bag 1st 2nd and 3rd pretty early on at decent(ish) prices but i really think the new change to the race could see big priced plunges on the days leading up and the day itself. It's a sit back and put your feet up job now until late Feb.

[Istabraq]

I agree with this.

This is the one race I think did need a change, and they done the correct thing making it a handicap.

The fact every other XC race at Cheltenham was a handicap made the whole level weights thing a nonsense anyway….

[Kautostar]

Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?

I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.

[Quevega]

Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?

It's a different assignment because it's a level playing field.

It can't be right that one stable wins the race every year by 20 lengths plus. After also being competitive and winning and placing in graded races within the same season.

The Cross country race was never meant for horses of the class that have been winning in recent times, which is why the one or two that did were so far ahead of their peers in the same category.

It had become a Gigginstown/Gordon Elliot benefit race.
Even the French have gradually stopped bothering.
The race has been fortunate to actually attract runners in the numbers it has, because they have been playing for third place at best and massively outclassed for the most part.

The fact it was the only XC conditions race in the UK is not a reason to keep it.
It's a specialist race that was not designed for a minority of elite horses to crush inferior horses.
And the fact it is now a handicap does not exclude the better/elite horses running in the race anyway.
They just won't have it as easy.

Conflated made the Ryanair a better race this season and Galvin, Conflated and Tiger Roll would all have enhanced the Ryanair or Gold cup races.

[Yosser]

I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.

Enda Bolger, Martin Keighley, Phillip Hobbs and David Cottin will all be plotting a route to the festival now if Cottin is allowed near his stables.

[Quevega]

I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.

I see this angle and this years race was shaping up nicely (you only have to look at the National result) but only if they all made the race. And match races are not really what we want too often.
Recent renewals were fortunate in that we always had at least 2 big hitters in the race, but like I've said previously this had to happen otherwise we'd have been looking at odd on shots every year.
You're one stone bruise away from a shit show every year.

I also understand that we might now have a lower standard of racehorse competing in the races going forward but at least as a handicap it will be more competitive.
I suppose we can't have it all ways.
And using the National as an example, why would these types not run off top weight ? They were all carrying big weights (11 stone plus) around aintree and came 2nd 3rd and 4th. In a higher quality field than any XC renewal will ever produce.
So any trainer who refuses to race on this reasoning is just being a bell end.

After all, it's the fucking cross country anyway, who cares ?
It's not even a proper race.

[Runragged]

It's a different assignment because it's a level playing field.

It can't be right that one stable wins the race every year by 20 lengths plus. After also being competitive and winning and placing in graded races within the same season.

The Cross country race was never meant for horses of the class that have been winning in recent times, which is why the one or two that did were so far ahead of their peers in the same category.

It had become a Gigginstown/Gordon Elliot benefit race.
Even the French have gradually stopped bothering.
The race has been fortunate to actually attract runners in the numbers it has, because they have been playing for third place at best and massively outclassed for the most part.

The fact it was the only XC conditions race in the UK is not a reason to keep it.
It's a specialist race that was not designed for a minority of elite horses to crush inferior horses.
And the fact it is now a handicap does not exclude the better/elite horses running in the race anyway.
They just won't have it as easy.

Conflated made the Ryanair a better race this season and Galvin, Conflated and Tiger Roll would all have enhanced the Ryanair or Gold cup races.

Why not make it a penalty system then like they have in the Mares Chase? It is a shame to deny horses who excel in the Cross Country sphere their chance to show their superiority just once a year. Instead they will be plotted up running below par all through the season just so they can turn up at Cheltenham and carry as little weight as possible. If we are going to be like this then we might as well just scrap the Cross Country from the whole schedule.