General Chat

[Yosser]

I thought the BHA were trying to stop handicap plots? They have created 3 more. 3 races not to bother with until after Christmas. Losing the NHC and Turners as graded races is a real kick to the AP returns.

Horses who are or likely to be hovering around the mark for the NHC at this stage we have :-

Sandor Clegane rated 145 over fences
Three Card Brag 146

Hurdlers going chasing

Loughlynn 140 over hurdles
Lecky Watson 143

The most interesting one unfortunately for me because of a BANC bet is Shanagh Bob at 134

[Kautostar]

That's the intention isn't it. Make every race a better spectacle for the average Joe. I'd say it's every chance of working as well. Arkle and BANC both be more stacked now you'd think. As well as the two novice handicaps stacked with plots...

Antepost fans, who are generally the core racing fans, aren't really the consideration.

Doubt it when Mullins had an odds fav for the Arkle the social runners will head elsewhere so they don’t ruin their handicap mark and we still get 5/6 runners.

[Exar Essay]

I’m prepared to give it a chance. I like the streamlining of the novice chases and it could create some high quality racing. I also like the jeopardy of the Tuners being an open handicap. If you’ve got a horse you think is well in, you could run him there no matter his rating. Say Firefox is rated low 150s going into the festival, Gordon may well run him in the turners off top weight rather than taking in Ballyburn.

Removing the Mares penalty is obvious and should be extended to the Mares Chase.

The NHC should’ve gone back to what it was. The distance alone would’ve put off anything with Grade One aspirations. But something needed to be done. The carefully controlled affair last year was diabolical.

I’m fine with the changes to handicaps, particularly as there are now two novice handicaps. However, I think it a little unfair on the hurdlers which no novice event.

I like the XC change. As well as making for a more competitive race, it should also push those Grade 1 animals to the Ryanair or GC.

The pertemps means little on initial thought. Although perhaps, you may get some very lowly rated things qualifying. No need to make sure you’re 130odd rated now.

Overall, I’m not sure I’d have made the exact changes they have or of the timing of the changes. But I’m prepared to give it a go.

[Lobos]

I'll definitely be saving more money now for the week itself and reduce my AP bets leaving out the Turners, XCC and NHC . Would normally have a good play in those 3. Could work out better but might not.

[Imperial Commander]

Absolute ridiculous.

They're not improvements, IMO.

Making G1's & G2's into handicaps is not the way forward.

Also love the way they are doing everything in their power to stop Willie & Gordon winning handicap hurdles with novices

They'll just start buying 3 or 4 raced novices from France, instead of the once or twice raced.

Yes - and the French will be quite happy to run them to lose a few more times if it keeps the big money conveyor belt going towards Closutton!

[Kautostar]

More handicaps over graded races is a bad move imo. The bookies will love it and your once a year punter but for those of us who take ante post betting seriously it’s making our job to make a profit a lot harder as the turners and NHC were generally easy money.

[Faugheen_Machine]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

[HoldenTheReins]

Should be renamed/rebranded to the Cheltenham Handicap Festival

[Benjy23]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

Agree with most of the this. The difficulty is a lot of racing purists are antepost punters. And it becomes difficult for many to see past this...

The changes are largely positive for sure. The problem they've made for themselves is they want it to last four days but want to make it more competitive. The only way of doing that is diluting the average race quality... Which is exactly what they've done really.

[JackieMoon33]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

The problem with ditching the AB is that it won't cause a whole bunch of horses to run in the Gallaghers instead. The real 'dodging' happens between the Supreme and the Gallaghers as horses that are competitive in those races, would be in the other race too. The horses that do well in the AB would have no chance in the Gallaghers so you're not going to increase the quality or numbers by ditching the AB. The AB is the one novice hurdle that consistently has a big field and an open betting market, even on the day. And the way the breeding industry is going in UK/IRE, we're likely to have more stayers in the horse population in the coming years.

[RoadToCheltenham]

Very little set to change with the novice hurdles, other than penalty situation for the MNH. Apparently there was never any real interest from the industry bods of changing the novice hurdle setup from the outset.

[Quevega]

I’m firmly in the thumbs up camp for these changes.
My only concern now would be the mares races and the hurdle handicaps.
id have expected the pipe to become novices only. Otherwise we have 5 handicap hurdles to fill.
but I’ll wait and see the official announcement

[Faugheen_Machine]

The problem with ditching the AB is that it won't cause a whole bunch of horses to run in the Gallaghers instead. The real 'dodging' happens between the Supreme and the Gallaghers as horses that are competitive in those races, would be in the other race too. The horses that do well in the AB would have no chance in the Gallaghers so you're not going to increase the quality or numbers by ditching the AB. The AB is the one novice hurdle that consistently has a big field and an open betting market, even on the day. And the way the breeding industry is going in UK/IRE, we're likely to have more stayers in the horse population in the coming years.

I think it's been mentioned elsewhere on here, but I really like the idea of altering the distance of the Gallaghers to align with the DRF (2m 6f).

[Istabraq]

I’d like to know what benefit comes from allowing pro jockeys in the oldest race at the festival.

But agree the changes are largely positive.
Benjy23 hit on the appropriate word, dilution, which was always going to be a consequence of going from 18 races to 28….

[Faugheen_Machine]

Agree with most of the this. The difficulty is a lot of racing purists are antepost punters. And it becomes difficult for many to see past this...

The changes are largely positive for sure. The problem they've made for themselves is they want it to last four days but want to make it more competitive. The only way of doing that is diluting the average race quality... Which is exactly what they've done really.

They'll improve the quality of the novice chases. For example, we aren't going to get future Gold Cup horses running in the NH Chase going forward.

Have the changes not helped with ante post? There's surely less uncertainty around where a horse will run as the graded novice chasers will only really be able to run in two races.