General Chat

[darlojim]

Going to be a long old season on here..

[Spectre]

This has more than likely been discussed already and I've missed (apologies if so) but Kevloaf has a cracking cameo in the Grand National episode of Champions: Full Gallop.

That was in The Parade Ring at Aintree on Grand National Day, when The King Of Ryhope went off favourite for the William Hill Chase. Kev thrust himself in so they couldn't miss him. They cut the bit when he took his shirt off and ran around the parade ring waving it above his head

[somer1]

Any love out there for Baby Kate for the MNH. Just keep going back and looking at her.

[RoadToCheltenham]

Vibes are that an announcement regarding Cheltenham and changes to the Festival programme are on the horizon (and yes, there will be some changes for this season). The BHA have bought themselves time, interestingly, by releasing the 2025 Fixture List dates but not the programme book.

This is the current information I've received:

The Programme Book for January will be online before the end of October 2024, with the rest of PB1 available by early November.

So the full programme will be confirmed by early November but you'd imagine they'll need to confirm Festival changes long before then. The longer it goes, the bigger the backlash.

[Odin]

Vibes are that an announcement regarding Cheltenham and changes to the Festival programme are on the horizon (and yes, there will be some changes for this season). The BHA have bought themselves time, interestingly, by releasing the 2025 Fixture List dates but not the programme book.

This is the current information I've received:

The Programme Book for January will be online before the end of October 2024, with the rest of PB1 available by early November.

So the full programme will be confirmed by early November but you'd imagine they'll need to confirm Festival changes long before then. The longer it goes, the bigger the backlash.

Thanks for this.

Doesnt massively bother me from a betting perspective (might even provide some new opportunities) but it's absolute amateur hour if the changes aren't confirmed before most horses come in for pre-training imo. Not sure when that is, but I'm guessing September ish? Imagine competing in the premier league but not knowing how many matches there will be in the season, likewise the F1 and not knowing if you're instantaneously going to be ineligible for one of the grand Prix. Crazy scenes.

[Istabraq]

Vibes are that an announcement regarding Cheltenham and changes to the Festival programme are on the horizon (and yes, there will be some changes for this season). The BHA have bought themselves time, interestingly, by releasing the 2025 Fixture List dates but not the programme book.

This is the current information I've received:

The Programme Book for January will be online before the end of October 2024, with the rest of PB1 available by early November.

So the full programme will be confirmed by early November but you'd imagine they'll need to confirm Festival changes long before then. The longer it goes, the bigger the backlash.

I'm going to assume that even the BHA, being one of the most incompetent governing bodies in sport, have engaged with trainers and owners to gauge opinion on this.
The likes of Spectre archie Bayoffreedom and a few others may well have a heads up access on this....

[RoadToCheltenham]

I'm going to assume that even the BHA, being one of the most incompetent governing bodies in sport, have engaged with trainers and owners to gauge opinion on this.
The likes of Spectre archie Bayoffreedom and a few others may well have a heads up access on this....

Correct. Jon Pullin was doing the rounds late June/early July in many of the UK yards

From Kim Bailey, 5th July:

Talking of change. Jon Pullen who is Regional Head of Racing, South West and Cheltenham Clerk of The Course was here early this morning to discuss this year's Cheltenham Festival and what needs changing.. Jon is/has been visiting most trainers…. Jon will have much to digest me thinks!

[Saxon Warrior]

Vibes are that an announcement regarding Cheltenham and changes to the Festival programme are on the horizon (and yes, there will be some changes for this season). The BHA have bought themselves time, interestingly, by releasing the 2025 Fixture List dates but not the programme book.

This is the current information I've received:

The Programme Book for January will be online before the end of October 2024, with the rest of PB1 available by early November.

So the full programme will be confirmed by early November but you'd imagine they'll need to confirm Festival changes long before then. The longer it goes, the bigger the backlash.

The Programme Book of big NH races is never out until November at the earliest.

I have an Annual Diary Note for it, and have to chase the BHA up, most years to find out why it's not up on their website when the season is in full swing, during October.

I will post the link to it on Fat Jockey, as usual, as soon as I see it.

I do the same for the HRI Irish NH Programme Book, which is out before the first races are run.

I'd expect any Cheltenham Festival changes for March 2025 should be published on Racing Post and elsewhere, well before the BHA Programme Book is published - in the past thats been as late as early December.

[Istabraq]

Correct. Jon Pullin was doing the rounds late June/early July in many of the UK yards

From Kim Bailey, 5th July:

Talking of change. Jon Pullen who is Regional Head of Racing, South West and Cheltenham Clerk of The Course was here early this morning to discuss this year's Cheltenham Festival and what needs changing.. Jon is/has been visiting most trainers…. Jon will have much to digest me thinks!

I don't do social media so won't be aware of any 'chat' but I'm surprised there's not been more reporting of this by trainers/owners if the engagement has been as extensive as suggested.
The BHA have missed a trick here to update punters/spectators that could have improved their perception, worse still if there are fundamental changes such as a graded race becoming a handicap where an ante post market exists and bets have been placed, then they're effectively confirming their incompetence...

[Spectre]

I can confirm a number of Trainers have been consulted. Also a meeting took place to discuss the changes several weeks ago, and pretty much all the things you'd expect were discussed. No outcomes were agreed the last I heard, but I suspect that has move on now.

I genuinely fear that changes will be knee-jerk without truly understanding the heart of the problem, and that is the Graded races being dominated by a very small number of years. Sure things like the XC can be fixed easily, but changes to the graded to handicaps or removing just condenses the same problem into fewer races.

Imagine the NH Chase going, and the Turners becoming a handicap, Willie will just dominate the Arkle and Brown Advisory with his entries. It has the opposite effect to what they'd intend, when even more Trainers would look at Aintree instead, and Willie will have the top 4 or 5 in the market.

The XC to handicap is an easy fix.
Disallow novices from the open handicaps also is. If they want a sixth day, run 6 novice handicaps on the Saturday. Or run them around the Imperial Cup at Sandown.
Remove penalties for the mares in the mares races.
Move the NH Chase to the New Course (and maybe back to 4 miles), so it is sufficiently different to the Browns.
And finally either remove the Boodles, or make it a 0-125, so horses are pushed back to the Triumph.

Outside that, other than minor tinkering, anything else would be a mistake.

[Spectre]

FWIW I'm not aware of any owners being consulted.

[Killiney]

I would be surprised if they get rid of the NHC given it’s the oldest race in the festival. Cannot see them getting rid of it as a consequence. Changes are needed though. In particular widen the criteria for riders which at the moment are too tight and effectively reduce the number of runners because not many riders qualify.

[Quevega]

I'm not sure any of the changes should be based around the dominance of any one yard.
That would be a mistake IMO.
The changes should be geared towards making the product more attractive to it's audience.
This means using methods to get the best horses racing against each other more often, even if they're from the same yard. Effectively reducing the options to avoid other elite horses.
And ensuring the handicaps are not biased towards novices or any persuasion.
If they (owners and trainers) avoid the meeting altogether then that's their choice I suppose.

[Lobos]

If the Turners as we know it is the most likely to go and the NHC also messed about with, then it makes sense to pick out the value in both the Arkle and BANC now as those two races will remain as they are.

[Istabraq]

If the Turners as we know it is the most likely to go and the NHC also messed about with, then it makes sense to pick out the value in both the Arkle and BANC now as those two races will remain as they are.

I’d counter argue that by saying horses that are currently looking like Turners or NH Chase horses could be re-routed to either of the other two novice races making them races stronger and therefore harder to win, so better value may well exist at a later date.
Ultimately it’s the BHA we’re dealing with here so drastic changes are unlikely….