Dark horses for Cheltenham 2021

[Middle_Of_March]

Dickie Diver

National Hunt Chase in particular

[Kevloaf]

I'm thinking on ratings Allart wouldn't be that far behind Saint Roi. Both you and I fancy the pants of him to improve enough to trouble the best over 2 miles. Can't see why Allart can't do the same ? It's possible yeah ? Why would Hendo keep him over hurdles ? Surely he's not going Stayers? Hendo is without question the best trainer of two mile horses. No way he'd keep him to hurdles if he didn't think he could make his mark in that sphere.

Allart OR 143
Saint Roi OR 151


Allart RPR 144
Saint Roi 151


Not got the timeform ones, but I would consider half a stone fair enough behind to not expect him to catch up AND then progress as much as the others still have to.


Abacababras and Saint Roi, both have to improve, 100% to be Champion Hurdlers. Allart has to improve to catch them AND improve past them to be a Champion Hurdler.

After a 15L defeat in the Supreme, he is more likely to be a handicap contender than a Champion Hurdle contender.






Also, "Why would Hendo keep him over hurdles ? Surely he's not going Stayers? Hendo is without question the best trainer of two mile horses. No way he'd keep him to hurdles if he didn't think he could make his mark in that sphere."

wow.

Okay, so Nicky Henderson has never had a two mile handicap hurdler? Absolute NONSENSE Lobos, seriously, that is one of the worst points anyone has ever made. There are freaking hundreds of horses Nicky Henderson has had/will have that will be two mile hurdlers that aren't CH class.

[Lobos]

Allart OR 143
Saint Roi OR 151


Allart RPR 144
Saint Roi 151


Not got the timeform ones, but I would consider half a stone fair enough behind to not expect him to catch up AND then progress as much as the others still have to.


Abacababras and Saint Roi, both have to improve, 100% to be Champion Hurdlers. Allart has to improve to catch them AND improve past them to be a Champion Hurdler.

After a 15L defeat in the Supreme, he is more likely to be a handicap contender than a Champion Hurdle contender.






Also, "Why would Hendo keep him over hurdles ? Surely he's not going Stayers? Hendo is without question the best trainer of two mile horses. No way he'd keep him to hurdles if he didn't think he could make his mark in that sphere."

wow.

Okay, so Nicky Henderson has never had a two mile handicap hurdler? Absolute NONSENSE Lobos, seriously, that is one of the worst points anyone has ever made. There are freaking hundreds of horses Nicky Henderson has had/will have that will be two mile hurdlers that aren't CH class.

Didn't just mean 2 mile Hurdlers. Chasers included. No better trainer of a 2 miler. Arkle winners, Supreme winners, champion Hurdlers, champion chase winners. He's the tops. If Allart is programmed over 2 be sure that he thinks he has every chance making the step up.

[Kevloaf]

Didn't just mean 2 mile Hurdlers. Chasers included. No better trainer of a 2 miler. Arkle winners, Supreme winners, champion Hurdlers, champion chase winners. He's the tops. If Allart is programmed over 2 be sure that he thinks he has every chance making the step up.

Are you just trying to wind me up?


Is Shishkin not much more likely to be his top class 2 miler from the Supreme?

You're implying that EVERY horse Nicky Henderson has that goes the 2 mile route, has the chance to be top class over 2 miles?



That is so stupid, honestly Lobos, tell me you aren't serious?!

[ComplyOrDie]

Dickie Diver

National Hunt Chase in particular

Yes MOM, I agree.

The worry, obviously Nicky's record in the race, but he is one I am keen on for that race

[Lobos]

Are you just trying to wind me up?


Is Shishkin not much more likely to be his top class 2 miler from the Supreme?

You're implying that EVERY horse Nicky Henderson has that goes the 2 mile route, has the chance to be top class over 2 miles?



That is so stupid, honestly Lobos, tell me you aren't serious?!

Clearly that is not what I meant. Henderson is a brilliant trainer of 2 milers and knows a good one when he's got one. Allart has decent ability and if he starts out over 2 then I'll be following him with interest as the Churdle will be at the back of Hendos mind for him. He needs to make a chunk of improvement from his Supreme run to be involved but if anyone can do that to a 2 mile horse, Hendo can.

[Spectre]

Maybe they're thinking about a Sturdle campaign given his breeding Lobos!

[Istabraq]

a Sturdle

Please God no, just no....

[Spectre]

I couldn't resist. Your post earlier had me laughing out loud.

[JackieMoon33]

I'm sure I posted this a while back but it would not surprise me in the slightest if Allart goes over fences next season. I know Henderson stated he had 'unfinished business' over hurdles but a lot of time has passed since then (Hendo is hardly one for sticking to his word either). The owner tends to buy chasing types and the breeding would also point towards that being the discipline he would excel at.

[Lobos]

Just found a piece from Henderson on his Unibet Blog re Allart. 'I think he's very useful and he jumps well. He's got plenty of speed and he's a proper 2 mile horse'.

Think I will have a punt on him for the Churdle and see what he does. Could potentially end up a County Hurdle horse maybe?

[Kevloaf]

Just found a piece from Henderson on his Unibet Blog re Allart. 'I think he's very useful and he jumps well. He's got plenty of speed and he's a proper 2 mile horse'.

Think I will have a punt on him for the Churdle and see what he does. Could potentially end up a County Hurdle horse maybe?

Might be one you can get a decent any race price on?

You'll probably have a hint of where he's going after the stable tours next month and he won't be immediately cut because he's not high profile enough.



He was the worst of Nicky's three in the Supreme, but 5th is credible enough - if he's as good as you think or hope he will be, they'll win a handicap with him on route so you'd have chance to make a bit of money there too.

[Spectre]

The latter is the way to go rather than TWAR him unless you're confident and sweet on him I'd suggest.

If he's going to win a graded race at the top table he should sluice up first time in a handicap off his mark, and if he does just reinvest the winnings. If not, you've escaped a bad bet.

[Lobos]

Just had a look at Hendos record in the 2 mile graded races at the festival for the last 10 years......

Arkle...3 wins and 3 placed
Champion Hurdle.....4 wins and 4 placed
Champion Chase.....5 wins and 1 placed
Supreme......2 wins and 10 placed

Quite a record that ! Clearly anything he runs in the above 4 need to be kept onside.

[Lobos]

Might be one you can get a decent any race price on?

You'll probably have a hint of where he's going after the stable tours next month and he won't be immediately cut because he's not high profile enough.



He was the worst of Nicky's three in the Supreme, but 5th is credible enough - if he's as good as you think or hope he will be, they'll win a handicap with him on route so you'd have chance to make a bit of money there too.

I'm thinking the Betfair Hurdle which has been used as a stepping stone for the Churdle by him a few times, noticeably My Tent or Yours.