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How many family members of people on here, maybe even the posters themselves, have needed hospital treatment because of what are ultimately lifestyle choices? How many will at some point because they're overweight, smoke, drank too much. What about people who take part in sports knowing there's a risk they'll get injured, which is just about every sport, should we apply your logic to them too? Some people are coming out with some amount of sh1te off the back of all this. No vaccinations are mandatory in this country, 1000's die every year of flu, most at risk get offered the jab, the rest of us can pay for it if we want to, but the vast majority of us don't even thought plenty will get flu and many may pass it on. So many people seem to have spent most of 2020 daydreaming about wearing an SS uniform.
Edit: Just to add as plenty seem to be struggling with it, we aren't going to eradicate Covid, same as you don't eradicate flu. It will always be here, life will have to go on. This was also the message from Chris Whitty and co last night too, not just my internet warrior ramblings.
Plenty of course but I dare say if the governments had the foresight of the costs smoking would incur through the NHS it would of been priced far higher earlier to combat that!
This has been thrust upon us, I personally see no valid reason why someone wouldn't want to resume normal life as quickly as possible and the vaccine will be a quicker path than the heard mentality many keep peddling out.
PHE say the 5 year average for influenza deaths is 17000. At risk people get a letter to go for a jab each year, I know because I used to have asthma so I still get one, but it isn't mandatory. I'm fairly certain that most years supermarkets like ASDA buy a load too and sell them for about ?15, all told it's a fairly straightforward jab to get if you want to, but the majority choose not to. Should we have a travel ban and what not for the 10s of millions who don't have the influenza vaccination?
Let's just scrap the vaccine and all live in lockdown for the rest of time. That'll be fun
Why did you ignore my response to your own post? Because it tears your logic to shreds?!
"Why wouldn't you want a vaccine?" - Well that's up to the individual isn't it, same as it always has been, we can all only answer for ourselves. I think i'll probably get one because i've got most that were made available for whatever reason throughout my life, but then maybe I wont because I don't see the virus as being a risk to the demographic I belong to and i'd need to see more evidence that it was safe. On balance I weigh up the situation as taking something that comes with a risk to prevent something I don't feel is significant risk to me. The statistics on age breakdowns are there for all to read. Same as I make the choice not to get the influenza vaccination despite, as already mentioned, it claiming 17000 lives on average each year in this country alone. That's a choice most others also make, it's something society has accepted. It should always be a choice for all manner of reasons.
Lockdown is a political decision, one which has changed at numerous points and has come with all manner of laughable and infuriating inconsistencies. A decision which is argued against by many who know much more about these things than either of us. It's been a long old year but many seem to have forgotten that for months we walked around without face masks, there was no surge in cases. Suddenly they're a thing overnight and anyone not wearing one is viewed as dangerous. I'm genuinely quite shocked to be honest how much this year has shown up just how much of society enjoys being dictated to and living in fear, without stepping back and thinking for themselves. It was fair enough in March when it was the great unknown and we all did it because we thought it was right, but since...
Being forced to have a vaccine to exit that situation is not the sort of society I wish to live in. Civil liberties don't have a habit of coming back once you've given them away.
I think the strongest argument against enforcing the vaccine, is there is no proof it prevents you from being contagious. So it should be an individual decision as the only person it benefits is yourself.
I've had Coronavirus and had exceptionally mild symptoms. Why would I take a vaccine for something that isn't going to make me ill? To not allow me to do certain things because of that choice is borderline insane.
If there was unequivocal proof that me having the vaccine would stop me transmitting it, then I'd gladly take it. But currently that isn't the case. Its not a panacea.
I think the strongest argument against enforcing the vaccine, is there is no proof it prevents you from being contagious. So it should be an individual decision as the only person it benefits is yourself.
I've had Coronavirus and had exceptionally mild symptoms. Why would I take a vaccine for something that isn't going to make me ill? To not allow me to do certain things because of that choice is borderline insane.
If there was unequivocal proof that me having the vaccine would stop me transmitting it, then I'd gladly take it. But currently that isn't the case. Its not a panacea.
The strongest argument against a state enforced vaccine is the decimation of our basic civil liberties, not how effective or safe it is (obviously they are very important too)
The strongest argument against a state enforced vaccine is the decimation of our basic civil liberties, not how effective or safe it is (obviously they are very important too)
Yeah that too Charlie. I was taking that as read tbh!
But I could understand why people would be pro everyone taking it, if it stopped you giving it to other people.
Last edited by Can't Catch Me; 24 November 2020, 01:55 PM.
I'm getting a bit tired of the attitude of many young people who, because they're less likely to have serious problems, opt to do anything that they please and then suggest that senior citizens should be locked down for their own protection. If you're vaccinated and unlikely to get covid, you're unlikely to spread it. If you have other proof that you're unlikely to spread it then that should get you in as well. Like facemasks, this is about responsibility towards fellow human beings. If you're looking for a way round the restrictions, that is just wrong.
It tears it to shreds? Comparing flu to Covid is almost laughable.
How so? There is an annual vaccination programme against influenza, I think it broadly speaking has a 50% success rate. It is made available to all groups deemed at risk and is relatively easy to come by if you fall outside of that but still wish to have it. On average, 17000 people still die of it in the flu season, but clearly that would be much higher were there no such programme. Society accepts the death levels, no bars are placed in any way on the civil liberties of those who choose not to have the vaccination, which is the vast majority of us.
Covid vaccines have up to a 90% success rate according to studies released thus far. They are going to be made available to act risk groups on a priority basis, but at some point it's envisaged that it will cover all at risk groups. Not only that, but it seems the case that it will eventually be made available, for free, to all of us. Please explain to me why anybody choosing not to have a vaccine should face draconian (to put it mildly) curbs on their civil liberties in this instance, but not in the case of 17000 deaths from that particular virus alone?
It tears it to shreds? Comparing flu to Covid is almost laughable.
Yes, it is.
They are 2 different things, as one is endemic, with vast swathes of the population already carrying immunity and the other (Covid) is heading for being endemic but the vast majority have no immunity and quite possible only temporary immunity. And there are different strands of this virus also, so anyone who's had it, could get it worse the next time (for all we know).
There have also been signs of mutations in other species.
The vaccine is simply a quicker way out of the lockdowns and all other various restrictions in life, so should be supported by more people volunteering to have it.
It's not the same as other vaccines in that respect.
Any of the Nob-ed conspiracy theorists can get fucked.
In fact tell them that the Oxygen we breathe has been fitted with a secret government (illuminati) tracking device, and that should get enough of them to hold their breath for long enough.
Or like Ricky Gervais said.
Take the warning signs off Bleach bottles.
The strongest argument against a state enforced vaccine is the decimation of our basic civil liberties, not how effective or safe it is (obviously they are very important too)
But it would have the very opposite effect.
We are already in the midst of the decimation of our civil liberties.
The vaccine is a way out of this.
Man drowning.
Other Man throws rubber ring.
Man shouts
Don't fucking give me that, I have rights you know !
Without this vaccine we'll be in and out of lockdown (and this may still happen to some degree) but surely rolling out a vaccination programme is better than what we already have..... Which is a pretty shit existence at the moment.
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