Cheltenham Festival Roll-Ups

[Nortons who]

I agree with Q's earlier comments and also with Archie that the Trump bets doubled up with Cheltenham are Ante Post doubles, since when most of these were struck both event were a significant duration away from happening.

Personally I still argue that roll-ups of a selection say today with one at Cheltenham should have no place whatsoever in a Cheltenham Ante Post bets portfolio or diary as they are totally unrelated and irrelevant. I know that others don't have the same opinion and that's up to them.

In terms of recording the roll-ups, in my opinion a roll-up which fails because the initial non Cheltenham selection loses is a loss against someones general betting bank and not Cheltenham, as the Cheltenham part hasn't occurred. Where the first leg of the roll-up wins say 1 point at 10-1 then for consistency (with the recording of non roll-up bets), in my opinion the rolled-up bet stake against the Cheltenham selection should be 11 points. Effectively the individual by doubling up has chosen to spend 11 points on the Cheltenham selection, not just the single point.

In summary I guess I'm advocating that roll-ups should not be recorded in Cheltenham diarys at all, only the live Cheltenham bet at full stakes.

[DeeBee]

Love and Battash at this weeks Ebor could be a nice roll up opportunity. The double pays 2.25. Only danger to Battash is Art Power who incidentally can be backed at evens without battash which maybe makes it better value. Double with love paying 2/1

[Saxon Warrior]

I agree with Q's earlier comments and also with Archie that the Trump bets doubled up with Cheltenham are Ante Post doubles, since when most of these were struck both event were a significant duration away from happening.

Personally I still argue that roll-ups of a selection say today with one at Cheltenham should have no place whatsoever in a Cheltenham Ante Post bets portfolio or diary as they are totally unrelated and irrelevant. I know that others don't have the same opinion and that's up to them.

In terms of recording the roll-ups, in my opinion a roll-up which fails because the initial non Cheltenham selection loses is a loss against someones general betting bank and not Cheltenham, as the Cheltenham part hasn't occurred. Where the first leg of the roll-up wins say 1 point at 10-1 then for consistency (with the recording of non roll-up bets), in my opinion the rolled-up bet stake against the Cheltenham selection should be 11 points. Effectively the individual by doubling up has chosen to spend 11 points on the Cheltenham selection, not just the single point.

In summary I guess I'm advocating that roll-ups should not be recorded in Cheltenham diarys at all, only the live Cheltenham bet at full stakes.

Norton, I agree with you that roll-ups are very different to win bets.

Who knows how many rollups anyone has done with Cheltenham horses, outside of recording those that did have a winner which is then rolling into a Cheltenham bet.

I use them, like others maybe, to try and pump up a return on one or two of the shorter priced Cheltenham favourites, this is mostly so I have something to watch (with money on it) when I go to the Festival in the Mares Hurdle for example.

I think Cheltenham Diaries could have a bit more purity to them.

Maybe the main section is for Win Only/Each Way single bets on horses, which gives a better reflection on those bets.
Then a Total Stake
less
Total lost to Festival non-runners
Total lost on Festival runners that lost
plus
Total won on Festival winners.
Overall Profit/Loss

Then any diarists that do rollovers or multis (and want us to know the ones still standing, as well as the losses) can have a second section related to those, in the same way as above.

Total Staked on rollovers/multis/doubles
less
Total lost on any of these bets pre-Festival
Total lost on actual losers at the Festival
Total Won on winning bets at Festival
Overall Profit/Loss

That way we can all see who has done well at backing horses in single bets, and who has done well at the rollovers and multis.

Otherwise we are going to see in one main list, normal win single bets mixed in with (for example) 260/1 on Envoi Allen from a rollover on Serpentine winning the Derby (or something similar), when its plainly obvious no-one had a 260/1 win single bet on Envoi Allen - it does look weird amongst normally staked single bets.

When I look to open a diary again this year, I will produce the bets in two distinct sections so that this is easier for anyone to read, and not a jumble of hyped-up prices mixed in with single win bets.

[BigChaang]

I've only attempted one roll up ,posted in the flat racing thread .
And... Made a right Dog's Breakfast of that !!.

[Lobos]

I've only attempted one roll up ,posted in the flat racing thread .
And... Made a right Dog's Breakfast of that !!.

I only attempted a roll up just the once. Never again.



Coughed my guts up.

[BigChaang]

I only attempted a roll up just the once. Never again.



Coughed my guts up.

Ha Ha !! ., Just seen on my tracker Stand up and fight has an entry at Killarney on saturday ..

[somer1]

I only attempted a roll up just the once. Never again.



Coughed my guts up.

Bit less of the green stuff

[Lobos]

Ha Ha !! ., Just seen on my tracker Stand up and fight has an entry at Killarney on saturday ..

Some decent racing there this week. May even see a couple of Festival winners.

[DeeBee]

Chevely Park roll up today - 1.45 York Sacred 2/1 with Envoi Allen Marsh 3/1

[Vautour]

2.5pts - Patrick Reed, Shishkin, Envoi
2.5pts - Webb Simpson, Shishkin, Envoi
1pt - Matt Wolff, Shishkin, Envoi

[Eggs]

....got Champ (Gold Cup) onside yesterday thanks to Barbill. When Channon sends one runner to Chester it was worth noting.

Looking to get a bit more on Champ with Kings Caper in the first at York today, as well as doubling Dingle 3.45 (Scooby’s selection) with Thyme Hill (Stayers).

Really glad I switched onto this thread, it’s new for me to use this method to boost a few Cheltenham selections with relatively small stakes.

[Kevloaf]

I've posted here about Pol Espagaro at 9/4 for the Moto GP at 13:00 today

http://www.fatjockey.com/forum/showthread.php?15820-Moto-GP

I'm going to have 0.5 pt e/w on him with something .... don't know what yet
Maybe Chacun Pour Soi

[Kevloaf]

I've posted here about Pol Espagaro at 9/4 for the Moto GP at 13:00 today

http://www.fatjockey.com/forum/showthread.php?15820-Moto-GP

I'm going to have 0.5 pt e/w on him with something .... don't know what yet
Maybe Chacun Pour Soi

Leading into the final corner, finished 3rd... so the bet is live -

Which is the equivilant of 1 pt stake - place only -at odds of 9/20

[Lobos]

Leading into the final corner, finished 3rd... so the bet is live -

Which is the equivilant of 1 pt stake - place only -at odds of 9/20

Could look fantastic when he goes off 1-2 on the day !

[Kevloaf]

Could look fantastic when he goes off 1-2 on the day !

Regardless, it's bad value in August the year before



That hasn't stopped me attempting the shorties each way though, it does leave a nice position when they win.





I can't actually cash this one out so I'm stuck with it, so let's hope you're right brother.