Cheltenham Festival Roll-Ups

[jack1092]

I'll be trying to get a couple of festival fancies rolled up with Finest Evermore this weekend!

[Pendil]

I'll be trying to get a couple of festival fancies rolled up with Finest Evermore this weekend!

Hi Jack I just checked FE price for mares novice. PP 12/1 into 8/1. Did this happen recently or has it been for a while?

[jack1092]

Hi Jack I just checked FE price for mares novice. PP 12/1 into 8/1. Did this happen recently or has it been for a while?

I was meaning her for this weekend's race and rolling up with something else. Didn't spot the shortening but i think i read somewhere on here Paddys have been shortening a few WPM runners recently? She's been entered 2 weekends in a row also, so presumably due to run soon, and if the race works out like it looks, it could be a reasonably easy race for her, so shortening her in advance?

[Pendil]

Thanks Jack. I understood that it was this week end you were referring to for roll up. I was just looking forward as I had forgotten her as a player for the novice hurdle. Yeah the BDD price changes got noticed Monday morning. Just was wondering if PP has some info re SWIW and when price changed

[Fatcatshat]

Agreed completely robith. Everyone's diaries who have been doing these seem to display it well enough

Apologies if I’ve stoked the embers of this debate
which may have previously been done to death! I’ll reply to Charlie for politeness but I’ll leave it at that afterward

[ryanh97]

Apologies if I’ve stoked the embers of this debate
which may have previously been done to death! I’ll reply to Charlie for politeness but I’ll leave it at that afterward

No need to apologise mate, debate and discussion is what it's all about

[Topofthegame2021]

I’m convince Santini will win the Many clouds chase this weekend - 5/4 currently so going to throw him in a few roll ups!

[robith]

Apologies if I’ve stoked the embers of this debate
which may have previously been done to death! I’ll reply to Charlie for politeness but I’ll leave it at that afterward

Don't apologise for politely putting your point across mate

[Fatcatshat]

It's a good debate to have. The concept of roll ups is nonsense? Or the way they are reported by others is nonsense? (I think it's important not to get these two mixed up).

I don't think the 'concept' of roll ups can be described as 'nonsense'. If you back Birmingham City @ 11/10 rolled up with Epatante @ 6/5 then it's a factual fact that you'll get paid more if Epatante wins. The concept exists, it's up to punters to make them profitable, and report them properly.

People on here are generally very clear and do not disingenuously try and suggest they have a 10/1 shot at 20/1 because they've included it in a roll up. Take me for example, I publish the number of points I've lost and use a * to clearly denote in my diary which prices are a result of a roll up. I haven't seen anyone not making those distinctions.

My take on roll ups are two fold. One, they are just a bit of fun and I think we can massively over analyse things on here (I am guilty go this sometimes). Two, it is because I have confidence in my ability to find winners at bigger prices that roll ups make sense for me. For example, I have lost 12 points on roll ups so far, and have roll ups where the last legs are: Ballyadam @ 87/1, Saldier @ 87/1, Honeysuckle @ 18/1, Altior @ 16/1, The Big Getaway @ 70/1, Shewearsitwell @ 27/1, Allaho @ 45/1, Chantry House @ 46/1, Lostintranslation @ 45/1. I am happy with my position

Re my bet, whilst my knowledge of Championship football is not at the same level as racing, I always research those types of bets. Bournemouth have been pretty consistent at home and Preston had lost five of their past seven league matches. Cardiff did the business against Huddersfield who have looked plain all season. I am confident that were those fixtures replayed 10 times I'd win enough times to outweigh staking 10pts on Appreciate It @ 10/1. It's obvious I feel that way otherwise I wouldn't have made the bet in the first place!!

PS. anyone inferring I'm 'incredibly shrewd' gets an A* on their first day in school

I think the concept is flawed tbh, however calling it nonsense was probably a bad choice of word.

Firstly, I don’t particularly care about people’s recording on their diaries, it’s clear to see that everyone is being genuine with regards to that, but if somebody wants to be disingenuous and record false prices I wouldn’t loose sleep over it either, ultimately it’s personal choice. However is does somewhat take away from the point of keeping a diary, which I believe is to help you improve your strategy from one year to the next.

I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t do multiples, they are fun and most of my ante post book will consist of doubles etc, but I can’t say I’m particularly bothered on knowing exact minutia how my P&L looks and how it was derived. If I was, in my opinion all the roll-ups do is create a distortion between your sport book and your ante post book.

Clearly you know your sports betting is profitable as well, as you stated, you wouldn’t bother with it otherwise. But the fact remains, using sports betting to fund the ante post book doesn’t increase the ‘price’ of those horses, it just increase the stake. I.e if I found 20 quid on the floor and added that to my hypothetical 20 quid bet I’m about to make, it doesn’t double the price of the horse - Yes it doubles my profit from the bet as that has only ‘cost’ me 20 quid (I personally would be very happy and probably would selectively forget that I found the money and give myself credit for the whole amount) however it teaches me nothing more about my strategy for the benefit of next year other than it’s a bonus to find 20 on the floor. What you are doing by being a profitable sports bettor is skewing your p&l on your ante post book.

Ultimately it’s a matter of how bothered you are about knowing the details of your strategy and learning from it for future benefit. If that’s the case I’d suggest keeping your sports book and ante post book totally separate... if your like me and you’re happy in blissful ignorance (to some degree!!!) then just do whatever you want. As Kev said earlier in the thread, it’s horses for courses when it comes to strategy

Anyway, sorry to everyone for boring you all to tears on a conversation you’ve previously had 18 times before!

[dannycraigpirates]

Therefore, if I want Shishkin onside, it "feels" better to put it in a roll-up than lump 10, 20, 25 pts on - especially when we haven't got the NRNB safety net.

but that is EXACTLY what you are doing when you place a roll-up. You have decided to stake the entirety of what would otherwise be winnings in your account on Shiskin at his current price - and whilst it might “feel” better this way as you don’t have to type out the 25 point stake and click submit, that is basically what you have done!

[charlie]

Fatcatshat - Isn't saying 'most of my ante post book will consist of doubles' and then knocking roll ups contradictory?

Anyway, hopefully you'll find hundreds of threads and thousands conversations on here enjoyable and useful for Cheltenham. My advice, if you view roll ups as flawed, is to save yourself the headache and leave this thread alone

[Leman14]

but that is EXACTLY what you are doing when you place a roll-up.

I know.
And I'm fine with that.

[Fatcatshat]

Fatcatshat - Isn't saying 'most of my ante post book will consist of doubles' and then knocking roll ups contradictory?

Anyway, hopefully you'll find hundreds of threads and thousands conversations on here enjoyable and useful for Cheltenham. My advice, if you view roll ups as flawed, is to save yourself the headache and leave this thread alone

DannyCraig makes this point far more eloquently that I have here, this is my point and thus why I feel it’s flawed in a sense.

Sorry, I may not have explained myself well, I meant ante-post doubles & trebles, which is different to an event happening now coupled with an ante-post bet. Plus, I doubt I’m as meticulous in my reporting as most of you either not as profitable so it makes no odds in that respect, I was mainly saying it for transparency.

Anyway, I wasn’t having a dig at you or your strategy, it’s was a general comment promoted by you, hence why you were name-checked. I’ll leave it now

[charlie]

DannyCraig makes this point far more eloquently that I have here, this is my point and thus why I feel it’s flawed in a sense.

Sorry, I may not have explained myself well, I meant ante-post doubles & trebles, which is different to an event happening now coupled with an ante-post bet. Plus, I doubt I’m as meticulous in my reporting as most of you either not as profitable so it makes no odds in that respect, I was mainly saying it for transparency.

Anyway, I wasn’t having a dig at you or your strategy, it’s was a general comment promoted by you, hence why you were name-checked. I’ll leave it now

It's all good pal - welcome to the forum.

[Ray]

Im backing a 5 fold football roll up tonight;
STOKE
ACCRINGTON
READING
BLACKBURN
CAMBRIDGE

this pays 60/1 ive involved it with about 15 horses! If it wins not only do i have some cash, but ive got serious positions for march!..i landed one the other week which pays 400 for a shishkin single and 400 for an envoi allen single (which i was buzzing about, now takes my shsihkin single to 770!)..if this one lands tonight id of pretty much backed the field in the stayers with each of them winning me 100s..only a little midweek go im never too serious about these but they DO work so only got to land the one!