Mares Hurdle 2021

[Kautothegreat8]

Agree with all this apart from the fact that she still could go for the Champion Hurdle, making the lump a little risky

A slight concern I agree but in reality I really cant see it happening. Henry has Aspire Tower as a genuine chance for the Champion Hurdle so I cant believe he will want to send Honeysuckle down the same route.

The owners maybe the curve ball.

[Kevloaf]

All this talk of Concertista being good enough for a Champion Hurdle is bizarre.

How can anyone think shes upto that level ?

Shes beat Minella Melody twice and that's about it. I see no way she runs in a champion hurdle this year.

The Mares Hurdle is an absolute certainty to run. Again the price on offer is bizarre. Same price as Honeysuckle for achieving what ?

Only thing I can say ......... Honeysuckle at the prices on offer at present is the best bet of the meeting. A genuine class act who's been there and done it as well as doing it against the boys.

LUMP ON

It's not "bizarre" is it really. You're not wrong by the end of what you're saying, Honeysuckle does make more sense of the two in a 'match bet' essentially.... but you're post reads as if you've never seen a horse improve into a Grade 1 horse before, which is bizarre.

It's bizarre to think a 2 mile novice festival winner (by 12 lengths) would have no chance whatsoever in a Champion Hurdle (which isn't exactly deep!) when since her festival win, she's won a G3 and G2 on the bridle.



It is not an absolutely certainty that she runs in the Mares hurdle either, that's a bizarre thing to declare when you clearly can't know that. It's comments like "see no way she runs" which are bizarre, not people thinking a Willie Mullins mare might improve.





Despite thinking she will run in the Mares race, and Honeysuckle being better

As Honeysuckle is your best bet of the meeting for the Mares Hurdle, what are you hoping for her to do in the Irish Champion Hurdle? A creditible defeat at 2m? A grinding win at 2m? Bolting up?

[Kautothegreat8]

It's not "bizarre" is it really. You're not wrong by the end of what you're saying, Honeysuckle does make more sense of the two in a 'match bet' essentially.... but you're post reads as if you've never seen a horse improve into a Grade 1 horse before, which is bizarre.

It's bizarre to think a 2 mile novice festival winner (by 12 lengths) would have no chance whatsoever in a Champion Hurdle (which isn't exactly deep!) when since her festival win, she's won a G3 and G2 on the bridle.



It is not an absolutely certainty that she runs in the Mares hurdle either, that's a bizarre thing to declare when you clearly can't know that. It's comments like "see no way she runs" which are bizarre, not people thinking a Willie Mullins mare might improve.





Despite thinking she will run in the Mares race, and Honeysuckle being better

As Honeysuckle is your best bet of the meeting for the Mares Hurdle, what are you hoping for her to do in the Irish Champion Hurdle? A creditible defeat at 2m? A grinding win at 2m? Bolting up?

I think its completely irrelevant what she does in the Irish Champion hurdle.

This is Henry not Willie or Gordon. He doesnt have the same amount of darts to throw as the other two. Honeysuckle would be his best chance of a festival win if she runs in the mares. Cant see that not happening.

As for Concertista ...... your just playing a guessing game. Of course she could be a beast but shes done nothing to prove how good she is. She hasnt even been running over the CH trip so again your guessing.

Not my style.

[Cheltenham Novice Chase]

Has anyone heard anything about Lamarckise? Still no entry.

[Kevloaf]

I think its completely irrelevant what she does in the Irish Champion hurdle.

This is Henry not Willie or Gordon. He doesnt have the same amount of darts to throw as the other two. Honeysuckle would be his best chance of a festival win if she runs in the mares. Cant see that not happening.

As for Concertista ...... your just playing a guessing game. Of course she could be a beast but shes done nothing to prove how good she is. She hasnt even been running over the CH trip so again your guessing.

Not my style.

Exactly, it's Henry not Willie or Gordon, THEY put the horses in the easiest races, of all the trainers is he not one of the boldest? Put The Kettle On a fine and obvious example for him... could have taken easier routes and hasn't.


The whole sport could be classed as a guessing game, after Epatante's first win, you could have crabbed her easily.

Espoir D'Allen won grade 3's then jumped up and won a Champion Hurdle..... both from the top of my head... people who backed them we're guessing?....and got it right...... which makes you saying it's bizarre, false.

[charlie]

All this talk of Concertista being good enough for a Champion Hurdle is bizarre.

How can anyone think shes upto that level ?

Shes beat Minella Melody twice and that's about it. I see no way she runs in a champion hurdle this year.

The Mares Hurdle is an absolute certainty to run. Again the price on offer is bizarre. Same price as Honeysuckle for achieving what ?

Only thing I can say ......... Honeysuckle at the prices on offer at present is the best bet of the meeting. A genuine class act who's been there and done it as well as doing it against the boys.

LUMP ON

Imagine how right and then wrong someone would have been writing the following post exactly one year ago to the day:

'All this talk about Epatante being good enough for a Champion Hurdle is bizarre.

How can anyone think she's up to that level?

She's been to Cheltenham once and bombed out at 15/8, and beaten a horse rated 135 and 80/1 shot in Silver Streak. I see no way she wins the Champion Hurdle this year'

At the time, I doubt many would have argued too strongly with that, but she improved as some horses do, and went on to win.

It's certainly not bizarre to think Concertista is not on a similar upward trajectory. She's now rated 153 which rates her 3lbs higher than Epatante at this point of their respective careers, and puts her at 160 with the mares allowance vs the boys. She's winning races with untold amounts in hand, which ironically is what I would have been told by the masses had I posted the above re Epatante one year ago. She jumps in the main low and fast, and put up a sensational performance at Cheltenham last year.

Of course the mares is more likely, but it's reasonable to suggest she might end up being at Champion hurdle level, and certainly not bizarre, all IMO of course.

[Kautothegreat8]

Exactly, it's Henry not Willie or Gordon, THEY put the horses in the easiest races, of all the trainers is he not one of the boldest? Put The Kettle On a fine and obvious example for him... could have taken easier routes and hasn't.


The whole sport could be classed as a guessing game, after Epatante's first win, you could have crabbed her easily.

Espoir D'Allen won grade 3's then jumped up and won a Champion Hurdle..... both from the top of my head... people who backed them we're guessing?....and got it right...... which makes you saying it's bizarre, false.

I did crab Epetantes first win as an overreaction to beating a front running Sceau Royal but that's a different story.

If people want to guess then that's fine but you'll go broke eventually.

Concertista is a 150 rated horse (Rated over a longer distance than the Champion Hurdle trip) racing against 164/165 rated horses. That's a hell of a lot to find. Does her run style suit a Champion Hurdle ? I would say not. Hold up horses in a Champion hurdle are a big no no for me.

With Willie's other options in the race I just cant see her running. Having said that i dont think she'll win either races so make no difference to me.

[Kautothegreat8]

Imagine how right and then wrong someone would have been writing the following post exactly one year ago to the day:

'All this talk about Epatante being good enough for a Champion Hurdle is bizarre.

How can anyone think she's up to that level?

She's been to Cheltenham once and bombed out at 15/8, and beaten a horse rated 135 and 80/1 shot in Silver Streak. I see no way she wins the Champion Hurdle this year'

At the time, I doubt many would have argued too strongly with that, but she improved as some horses do, and went on to win.

It's certainly not bizarre to think Concertista is not on a similar upward trajectory. She's now rated 153 which rates her 3lbs higher than Epatante at this point of their respective careers, and puts her at 160 with the mares allowance vs the boys. She's winning races with untold amounts in hand, which ironically is what I would have been told by the masses had I posted the above re Epatante one year ago. She jumps in the main low and fast, and put up a sensational performance at Cheltenham last year.

Of course the mares is more likely, but it's reasonable to suggest she might end up being at Champion hurdle level, and certainly not bizarre, all IMO of course.

Epetante had won a christmas hurdle so its completely different circumstances.

Any of the top ten in the champion hurdle market would destroy Minella Melody.

Her form amounts to nothing.

[Al Boum Photo]

I did crab Epetantes first win as an overreaction to beating a front running Sceau Royal but that's a different story.

If people want to guess then that's fine but you'll go broke eventually.

Concertista is a 150 rated horse (Rated over a longer distance than the Champion Hurdle trip) racing against 164/165 rated horses. That's a hell of a lot to find. Does her run style suit a Champion Hurdle ? I would say not. Hold up horses in a Champion hurdle are a big no no for me.

With Willie's other options in the race I just cant see her running. Having said that i dont think she'll win either races so make no difference to me.

She's a 153 rated horse with a 7lb allowance, that leaves her with 6 or 7lbs to find at most.

[Kautothegreat8]

I'm just gonna leave it there....... My opinion is she isn't upto the level to win a Champion Hurdle but also isn't upto the level of Honeysuckle so I'm wasting my time even talking about it

[Kautothegreat8]

She's a 153 rated horse with a 7lb allowance, that leaves her with 6 or 7lbs to find at most.

Think your forgetting Epetante also gets the allowance

[Kevloaf]

I did crab Epetantes first win as an overreaction to beating a front running Sceau Royal but that's a different story.

If people want to guess then that's fine but you'll go broke eventually.

Concertista is a 150 rated horse (Rated over a longer distance than the Champion Hurdle trip) racing against 164/165 rated horses. That's a hell of a lot to find. Does her run style suit a Champion Hurdle ? I would say not. Hold up horses in a Champion hurdle are a big no no for me.

With Willie's other options in the race I just cant see her running. Having said that i dont think she'll win either races so make no difference to me.

I meant Epatante the first year she won it fella, you'd have been able to crab that form and then next run she wins a G1.... it came from nowhere, the same as it could for Concertista.

No-one is even disagreeing with you, you're just making out it's impossible when it's not.

I won't go broke... I can't see that happening. I can't fathom it. It's bizarre to suggest I'd go broke.



Ignored the trainer point I made, that was a good one

[Kevloaf]

I'm just gonna leave it there....... My opinion is she isn't upto the level to win a Champion Hurdle but also isn't upto the level of Honeysuckle so I'm wasting my time even talking about it

See, if you'd have said "My opinion is she isn't upto the level to win a Champion Hurdle but also isn't upto the level of Honeysuckle"

Would anyone have said anything? I doubt it....but you said it's "bizarre" and "you couldn't see it"




It's wasting your time if you think your opinion is fact and then saying it on a forum as fact then getting annoyed when people point out its not fact. If you say it's your opinion, there are no crossed wires.

Might seem pedantic, as it could be assumed if you right it, it's your opinion, but you must have noticed during your time on here that style of writing gets jumped on as it's not the best way to debate or discuss, it comes across far too tribal.

[Kautothegreat8]

I meant Epatante the first year she won it fella, you'd have been able to crab that form and then next run she wins a G1.... it came from nowhere, the same as it could for Concertista.

No-one is even disagreeing with you, you're just making out it's impossible when it's not.

I won't go broke... I can't see that happening. I can't fathom it. It's bizarre to suggest I'd go broke.



Ignored the trainer point I made, that was a good one

I didnt mean you personally go broke ..... just meant in general.

Of course anything is possible but until I see something with my own eyes I'm certainly not going to take a guess.

For all we know she could be the 2nd coming but to my eye (And I'll probably get shot down) she doesnt look anything special.

A good horse beating some average mares.

[Kautothegreat8]

See, if you'd have said "My opinion is she isn't upto the level to win a Champion Hurdle but also isn't upto the level of Honeysuckle"

Would anyone have said anything? I doubt it....but you said it's "bizarre" and "you couldn't see it"




It's wasting your time if you think your opinion is fact and then saying it on a forum as fact then getting annoyed when people point out its not fact. If you say it's your opinion, there are no crossed wires.

Might seem pedantic, as it could be assumed if you right it, it's your opinion, but you must have noticed during your time on here that style of writing gets jumped on as it's not the best way to debate or discuss, it comes across far too tribal.

Well I ain't god am I

If I knew horses couldn't win I'd be a millionaire

Not too sure where the annoyed part come from.