Mares Hurdle 2021

[charlie]

What makes you think she will power up the hill over the longer trip? Today she beat two horses who are already exposed as being well short of Grade 1 standard without coming off the bridle. It was hardly a stern test of stamina. She just outclassed them.

I am 95% sure Lobos is talking about Honeysuckle there and not Concertista.

[Lobos]

What makes you think she will power up the hill over the longer trip? Today she beat two horses who are already exposed as being well short of Grade 1 standard without coming off the bridle. It was hardly a stern test of stamina. She just outclassed them.

The best she looked today was passing the line and she absolutely devoured the hill and flew up it in the Novice Mares this year. She looks to have matured/grown up this season and there's plenty more improvement left as far as I can see.

[charlie]

What makes you think she will power up the hill over the longer trip? Today she beat two horses who are already exposed as being well short of Grade 1 standard without coming off the bridle. It was hardly a stern test of stamina. She just outclassed them.

Turns out Lobos was talking about Concertista, and he's right IMO.

Did you see how she finished over 2m at Cheltenham? There is no way her calibre should be measured even remotely in what she brushed aside today.

[charlie]

The best she looked today was passing the line and she absolutely devoured the hill and flew up it in the Novice Mares this year. She looks to have matured/grown up this season and there's plenty more improvement left as far as I can see.

Yep, to say Concertista won't handle a step up off the back of today is as ludicrous as saying Epatante doesn't want 2m. Seems a foolish discussion, Concertista is mustard

[Kevloaf]

Benie Des Dieux is different level to Concertista.


I watched the interview with Townend after, they tried so hard to get him to commit to her being a superstar and he was having none of it. He just said she'd be a force to be reckoned with wherever she went.



There is no way on the planet they think they've got Honeysuckle covered with her!


I would love to believe the reason that Paul won on the birdle against Minella Melody was to try and play mind games with Honeysuckle's connections though, but I'd have Benie Des Dieux odds on to beat Concertista if they met, and Pual owould be on Benie. Therefore I don't see Concertista as a credible opponent for Honeysuckle yet.




Does anyone believe Honeysuckle wouldn't beat Minella Melody easily?




Huge over reaction to an already hugely short priced mares?



She did look impressive, but if "the big two" ran, she'd be running for 3rd

[Spectre]

I’m in the positive camp for Concertista. I’ve got a quote somewhere that they expect her to be better at the intermediate trip, and while it’s arguable what she beat in Minella Melody yesterday, she could have won that race as far out as she wanted. So I’m not sure using the distance of her victory is a valid comparison to make to what BDD or Honeysuckle would have done. They’d probably have done no more than she did, because there was no need.

Concertista is the up and coming mare, and we are all often guilty of not wanting to believe it when our favourites are vulnerable. I suspect it’s very possible that Concertista may be able to give BDD a tough race over two and a half at the respective stages of their careers. To my eye she has already made a case to regard her as a serious candidate for the Mares Hurdle.

I couldn’t say how many times I’ve backed a bombproof horse that’s been beaten by an up and comer, but I’d probably be much better off if I’d backed the up and comer rather then the shortie given the significantly better odds. And Concertista is one of those horses I get that vibe from, and certainly she’s a bet to nothing while she’s an each way price.

[Lobos]

Benie Des Dieux is different level to Concertista.


I watched the interview with Townend after, they tried so hard to get him to commit to her being a superstar and he was having none of it. He just said she'd be a force to be reckoned with wherever she went.



There is no way on the planet they think they've got Honeysuckle covered with her!


I would love to believe the reason that Paul won on the birdle against Minella Melody was to try and play mind games with Honeysuckle's connections though, but I'd have Benie Des Dieux odds on to beat Concertista if they met, and Pual owould be on Benie. Therefore I don't see Concertista as a credible opponent for Honeysuckle yet.




Does anyone believe Honeysuckle wouldn't beat Minella Melody easily?




Huge over reaction to an already hugely short priced mares?



She did look impressive, but if "the big two" ran, she'd be running for 3rd

I'd have Concertista beating Benie over 2 1/2 now. Benie must be on some sort of decline at her age. Everyone thought that she'd spank Honeysuckle last season but she wasn't up to it. Can Benie improve on that? The answer is most probably no in my book. In fact with another year gone expect her to be a couple of lengths down on that. Concertista looked a different horse yesterday in both looks and the way she won. She's really grown up and looks a bull of a Mare. She's undoubtedly improved from last season imo and that puts her right in the mix. Do I think she would beat Honeysuckle.... not a chance, but we all know my thoughts there. I've this morning had a 2pt double on yesterday's winners Monkfish and Concertista and expect to pick up come March.

[Craigy14]

I'd have Concertista beating Benie over 2 1/2 now. Benie must be on some sort of decline at her age. Everyone thought that she'd spank Honeysuckle last season but she wasn't up to it. Can Benie improve on that? The answer is most probably no in my book. In fact with another year gone expect her to be a couple of lengths down on that. Concertista looked a different horse yesterday in both looks and the way she won. She's really grown up and looks a bull of a Mare. She's undoubtedly improved from last season imo and that puts her right in the mix. Do I think she would beat Honeysuckle.... not a chance, but we all know my thoughts there. I've this morning had a 2pt double on yesterday's winners Monkfish and Concertista and expect to pick up come March.

On the decline?

A half length defeat to Honey and your conclusions of that is she is on the decline?! She was closing on Honey all the way to the line and another 50 yards I’d have had her getting past.

Had he not come off the rail I’ve no doubt BDD would be the mares winner. Subsequently due to jockey errors and great riding by Rachael she stole first run and got 3 lengths ahead.

Some of your opinions are really wild Lobos. BDD has shown nothing to say she is on the decline.

[kinloch brae]

Yep, to say Concertista won't handle a step up off the back of today is as ludicrous as saying Epatante doesn't want 2m. Seems a foolish discussion, Concertista is mustard

Yesterday was no indication of stamina. She just sat behind two inferior rivals and outclassed them. What would seem foolish would be to assume that just because a horse finishes strongly over two miles it will do the same over another half mile.

Given that she had never won over the trip plenty were asking questions as to whether she would cope with the step up in trip. If it was that obvious then why were they asking? Even trainer mentioned it beforehand.

If she were mine I would run her over two miles and see if she is good enough for a crack at a Champion Hurdle.

[charlie]

Yesterday was no indication of stamina. She just sat behind two inferior rivals and outclassed them. What would seem foolish would be to assume that just because a horse finishes strongly over two miles it will do the same over another half mile.

Given that she had never won over the trip plenty were asking questions as to whether she would cope with the step up in trip. If it was that obvious then why were they asking? Even trainer mentioned it beforehand.

If she were mine I would run her over two miles and see if she is good enough for a crack at a Champion Hurdle.

The word 'foolish' has really got your goat hasn't it KB

The wrong word to use in hindsight because what you said is far from foolish, I just don't think the performance yesterday can be used as a stick to beat Concertista's stepping up credentials. It remains an unknown in deep company, but signs are positive that she will do well over intermediate trips given how effortless she was yesterday coupled with how she powered away up the Cheltenham hill. Willie seems to think the step up will be no problem, I agree.

Ultimately, we would do the same thing were she ours and have a crack at the Champion Hurdle.

[Lobos]

On the decline?

A half length defeat to Honey and your conclusions of that is she is on the decline?! She was closing on Honey all the way to the line and another 50 yards I’d have had her getting past.

Had he not come off the rail I’ve no doubt BDD would be the mares winner. Subsequently due to jockey errors and great riding by Rachael she stole first run and got 3 lengths ahead.

Some of your opinions are really wild Lobos. BDD has shown nothing to say she is on the decline.

Completely disagree with all of that but it's been done many times on here before so we'll just move on.

[charlie]

Benie Des Dieux is different level to Concertista.

I watched the interview with Townend after, they tried so hard to get him to commit to her being a superstar and he was having none of it. He just said she'd be a force to be reckoned with wherever she went.

There is no way on the planet they think they've got Honeysuckle covered with her!

I would love to believe the reason that Paul won on the birdle against Minella Melody was to try and play mind games with Honeysuckle's connections though, but I'd have Benie Des Dieux odds on to beat Concertista if they met, and Pual owould be on Benie. Therefore I don't see Concertista as a credible opponent for Honeysuckle yet.

Does anyone believe Honeysuckle wouldn't beat Minella Melody easily?

Huge over reaction to an already hugely short priced mares?

She did look impressive, but if "the big two" ran, she'd be running for 3rd

The word 'yet' is definitely the most important word used in this post

BDD is rated 162 over hurdles, Concertista goes from 148 to......?

[Kevloaf]

The word 'yet' is definitely the most important word used in this post

BDD is rated 162 over hurdles, Concertista goes from 148 to......?

Well beating Minella Melody the literal distance she did means she can't get near 162 surely?

She looked brilliant, she's got a brilliant festival record..... if she had been 20/1 I'd defintiely have already backed her. First price I recall seeing her was 10/1, which wasn't worth chancing in my opinion when BDD and Honeysuckle set such a high bar.


What she did yesterday means she's almost certainly going to be involved however at 6/1, that doesn't leave loads of wiggle room and I would believe Honeysuckle or Benie Des Dieux would be odds on in a match against her, therefore, I haven't rushed to back at 6/1 when they are 7/2 and 5/1.



I'm definitely not saying she can't improve, I'm just saying she's still got to improve. As I suggested, I think they've won so snuggly for a bit of mind games

[charlie]

Well beating Minella Melody the literal distance she did means she can't get near 162 surely?

She looked brilliant, she's got a brilliant festival record..... if she had been 20/1 I'd defintiely have already backed her. First price I recall seeing her was 10/1, which wasn't worth chancing in my opinion when BDD and Honeysuckle set such a high bar.


What she did yesterday means she's almost certainly going to be involved however at 6/1, that doesn't leave loads of wiggle room and I would believe Honeysuckle or Benie Des Dieux would be odds on in a match against her, therefore, I haven't rushed to back at 6/1 when they are 7/2 and 5/1.

I'm definitely not saying she can't improve, I'm just saying she's still got to improve. As I suggested, I think they've won so snuggly for a bit of mind games

No, obviously beating MM doesn't get her near 162 but she'll presumably see 150's given how she took the piss. My point is on ratings she doesn't have to find the world to be competing with BDD, and as others have pointed out, BDD isn't getting any younger.

BDD is by far the better of the two, at the moment, but I don't think there's a gulf between them.

I completely agree re price, although I am convinced they wont run BDD into Concertista, and that BDD will go mares chase. On that basis, if Honeysuckle looks even slightly below par today, I'll be jumping all over 6/1 because without BDD that's an attractive price no?

[Quevega]

Negative,

I think Concertista may have been flattered at Cheltenham with a pace burn up myself.
Her form prior to Cheltenham was ordinary.
She may well have beaten a bunch of ordinary mares novices also.
She could be the next Glens Melody or Divock Origi.

Positive,

Yesterday she looked classy,
Last season she may well have been campaigned with a handicap in mind, and therefore we may not have seen her at her very fittest till Cheltenham - Handicaps was definitely mentioned by Willie more than once, and she ran in a notable Irish handicap as one of her preps.
She may be the next Willie super mare.
She definitely stays. Both mares novices show this to be the case, and her attempts over further (see handicap comment above).