Envoi Allen

[kinloch brae]

Apologies if a thread has already been created but this horse is taking up chunks of other threads.

There seems to be a widespread view that he can do almost anything. He is portrayed as being in the invincible category.

Facts are, yes he is unbeaten which adds a certain lustre to any horse, but he is only about three lengths better than the best of the other novice hurdlers, and that's probably being generous.

I have said elsewhere that I thought the Ballymore was the weakest of the three novice hurdles. The placed horses were Grade 2 horses at best.

A superior round of jumping might easily reel in three lengths.

Even if the Marsh is the target I don't think the current price represents any value at all.

[ComplyOrDie]

I'd say there is a lot of talk about Envoi Allen and Shishkin as such they both spearhead their respective expected race markets.

We now have a dedicated Envoi Allen thread, I don't think any other horse has had this before, superstar status by creating one? This just gives him a place of his own, but he deserves to be among the crop of potential chasers for the season ahead

[Kevloaf]

The Marsh will be contested by Grade 2 horses as well as they avoid Envoi Allen.

He's taking up pages in the Novice Chase thread that I set up, as he's the highest rated Novice Hurdler going Novice Chasing.


3L is the literal distance he won, I'm going to be surprised if that's the limit of his ability.


Single figures for any horse is easy to ignore this far out, and we know it's not your style or approach.



It's impossible to avoid discussing EA in the specific Novice Chase thread that I set up.

Feel free to add yo the discussion wherever you see fit.

[The King Pimm]

I appreciate your point KB and even though he won all his races last seasons he never destroyed any of the fields but what has caught my attention for the past 18 months is the awe and high regard connections and respected trainers and pundits in horse racing have for him. They are foaming at the mouth when discussing his work at home and potential. I do think he’s superstar material but we’ve not witnessed that race yet that proves it. I really hope he avoids injury that spoilt the careers of Douvan & Faugheen. My prediction would be the Marsh this season, Ryanair next and then 2 possible tilts at the Gold Cup when he’s 9 & 10. I think they won’t over race him and aim him at specific races that prepare him for the Festival. After what Faugheen did over fences this season I don’t think a 9yr old is too old to win a Gold Cup and he may need the time to mature and prepare.

[OverTheLast]

You don't have too win by 25l to win at ease. He's very very good and would have won whatever novice hurdle he ran in imo.

[Anay Turge]

The poll last year suggested Envoi was the “banker” that everyone least fancied, yet was the only horse that won.

He’s beaten Abacadabras convincingly, who was consequently beat by shishkin on the nod. He is a 2 x Festival winner.

What else does he need to do to be considered top drawer? He’ll surely keep improving for the next couple years and be there where it matters next year and the following gold cup. IMO

[Quevega]

I've missed getting a price for this horse, ever since cashing out the 33's cos of Gordon the gobshite.

But he's excellent, and I personally don't give a shit about how many lengths he's won his races by. He clearly looks very good and probably better than we've seen (has something in reserve maybe ?)

Which was the last horse to win it's first 8 races under rules including two divisional championship races at Cheltenham ??
Still unbeaten and twice a winner at Cheltenham.

Genuine question.
Name the horse ???
Or horses ?

[Istabraq]

Genuine question.
Name the horse ???
Or horses ?

Great question.
Probably Douvan.
I immediately thought Altior but he was beaten in bumpers

[Quevega]

Great question.
Probably Douvan.
I immediately thought Altior but he was beaten in bumpers

Think Douvan lost on his debut, although that was in France (so doesn't really count, in my book)
But for sticklers it would.

[Craigy14]

Defi Du Seuil Q?

[Quevega]

Defi Du Seuil Q?

Nope, he had a year being rubbish as a five year old.
They should have gone chasing instead of wasting a season, but they got there in the end.

[Kevloaf]

Samcro at this stage?
This is where it unravelled though

[Craigy14]

Nope, he had a year being rubbish as a five year old.
They should have gone chasing instead of wasting a season, but they got there in the end.

Sorry got it all wrong was thinking from start of his career although still wasn’t correct beat on debut in France then actually won 8 in a row from there.

[Philg123]

Faugheen won the Ballymore and champion hurdle while being unbeaten until the Morgiana the following season

[jonthehammer]

He seems to be a horse who is always keeping something back to me hence the 3 lengths victories, I am sure Davy has said that a few times. Top notch horse who will I am gagging to see over fences this season.